Concealed carry beginning to open up in my community.

Concealed carry beginning to open up in my community.

This is a discussion on Concealed carry beginning to open up in my community. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The county judge, when he was seeking election, did it the old fashioned way. He went from door to door and spoke with the voters ...

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Thread: Concealed carry beginning to open up in my community.

  1. #1
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Concealed carry beginning to open up in my community.

    The county judge, when he was seeking election, did it the old fashioned way. He went from door to door and spoke with the voters in the county. One of the overriding themes he found was that people were asking him why concealed carry was not allowed in our county? This was basically due to the attitude of the retiring judge who allowed very few people who could prove "need" to his satisfaction to carry concealed.

    When the new judge was elected, he went to the Sheriff and asked him if there was any reason he shouldn't grant more concealed carry permits, and the Sheriff said "nope" (or something to that effect).

    The "should training be required" thread got me to thinking about the judge's requirement for training. This is a personal requirement for the judge, and is not codified in any county or state law. This is a prudent action on the part of the judge. Because the first wave of permit carriers are going to be critical to the long term success of the program.

    For the past 30 years, the people in our community have only seen guns in the hand of two groups of people. Police and criminals. If they notice a person with a gun (getting made) they will assume that the person is either an off duty cop, or a criminal. In the vast majority of cases this used to be correct. Now, however, there will be a new class of people carrying. The genus "homo law abidinus". They've never seen this creature, so it'll take some getting used to.

    All concealed carriers should be careful and prudent, but in our case we need to be even more so. We need to be model citizens, taking into account the sensibilities of our fellow citizens. The first accident, ND, or non-righteous shooting by a permit holder will probably be followed in the local press by the headline: "CONCEALED CARRY EXPERIMENT AND ABJECT FAILURE".

    We need to have some foiled robberies, assaults or rapes under our belt before that happens. We need to be friendly and work with local law enforcement. We need to work for the judge's election next term to make sure our right is not taken away by the next judge who might be able to use minor infractions to revoke our permits. We don't want to give the county legislature reason to restrict concealed handguns regardless of what the judge says.

    Now in the other thread, a lot of people went "all second amendment" on the suggestion for training. I agree that the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. But I'm also a pragmatist. Currently in our county concealed carry is a privilege. Whether it ought to be a privilege is up for discussion, but that is the reality I'm living in. Treating it as a privilege, giving thanks to the judge and working on training myself so I will never to anything to make him regret his decision is my best course of action.

    [I have specifically left out the name of the judge and Sheriff. I'm sure some know who they are. I ask, as a favor to me, not to use their names in this thread. Not because they have anything to be ashamed of, but the fact that information on the internet lasts a long time, and I would hate to have friendly politicians politically injured by the carelessly bandying about of their names. Thanks.]
    Last edited by cl00bie; December 20th, 2008 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Forgot to qualify privilege.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Nice post. Good luck on the loosening of the permits.
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  3. #3
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    A look at many others states CCW initiatives should make people understand that few permit holders commit crimes, ect. Sounds like your local area is starting to turn around
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    ...This is a personal requirement for the judge, and is not codified in any county or state law. This is a prudent action on the part of the judge...

    ...Now in the other thread, a lot of people went "all second amendment" on the suggestion for training. I agree that the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed...
    While I understand your feeling of a 'privilege', I couldn't disagree more.
    Many of us don't go around 'all second amendment', it's the rest of the population that has forgotten all about RKBA and THEY are going around 'all peasant subject'.

    It's not a thanks for a few crumbs of what the founding fathers clearly meant, it's how about following through with the original plan of RKBA. Without the ability to arm ourselves, we citizens are merely subjects.
    Remember, the original purpose of RKBA was not to protect ourselves from criminals (although that has become more important with all the BG's roaming around), but to protect ourselves from the government.

    Any time you allow one person (a Judge) to decide who gets what, and the hoops you jump through to get it...you'll end up with another Washington D.C....no guns and tons of crime.

    OK, I'm done...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    The county judge, when he was seeking election, did it the old fashioned way. He went from door to door and spoke with the voters in the county. One of the overriding themes he found was that people were asking him why concealed carry was not allowed in our county? This was basically due to the attitude of the retiring judge who allowed very few people who could prove "need" to his satisfaction to carry concealed.
    When the new judge was elected, he went to the Sheriff and asked him if there was any reason he shouldn't grant more concealed carry permits, and the Sheriff said "nope" (or something to that effect).
    The "should training be required" thread got me to thinking about the judge's requirement for training. This is a personal requirement for the judge, and is not codified in any county or state law. This is a prudent action on the part of the judge. Because the first wave of permit carriers are going to be critical to the long term success of the program.
    For the past 30 years, the people in our community have only seen guns in the hand of two groups of people. Police and criminals. If they notice a person with a gun (getting made) they will assume that the person is either an off duty cop, or a criminal. In the vast majority of cases this used to be correct. Now, however, there will be a new class of people carrying. The genus "homo law abidinus". They've never seen this creature, so it'll take some getting used to.
    All concealed carriers should be careful and prudent, but in our case we need to be even more so. We need to be model citizens, taking into account the sensibilities of our fellow citizens. The first accident, ND, or non-righteous shooting by a permit holder will probably be followed in the local press by the headline: "CONCEALED CARRY EXPERIMENT AND ABJECT FAILURE".
    We need to have some foiled robberies, assaults or rapes under our belt before that happens. We need to be friendly and work with local law enforcement. We need to work for the judge's election next term to make sure our right is not taken away by the next judge who might be able to use minor infractions to revoke our permits. We don't want to give the county legislature reason to restrict concealed handguns regardless of what the judge says.
    Now in the other thread, a lot of people went "all second amendment" on the suggestion for training. I agree that the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. But I'm also a pragmatist. Currently in our county concealed carry is a privilege. Whether it ought to be a privilege is up for discussion, but that is the reality I'm living in. Treating it as a privilege, giving thanks to the judge and working on training myself so I will never to anything to make him regret his decision is my best course of action.
    [I have specifically left out the name of the judge and Sheriff. I'm sure some know who they are. I ask, as a favor to me, not to use their names in this thread. Not because they have anything to be ashamed of, but the fact that information on the internet lasts a long time, and I would hate to have friendly politicians politically injured by the carelessly bandying about of their names. Thanks.]
    I'm sorry , but I must rain on your parade.

    I lived most of my life in your state , still work there , but I am
    "Free" now.

    NY does not recognize your RIGHTS under the Second Amendment ,
    they just grant some people PRIVILEGES.

    Most of your fellow citizens Don't Care.

    Your State Constitution is almost Incomprehensible on the issue
    of personal rights .

    If you really want to exercise your god Given Rights , don't start
    with judges - start with the Voting Booth.
    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
    {Bernhard Goetz}

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    When I see "Training Requirements" I think on one hand it is a good idea - but I also think this shouldn't impede the average Joe (not Joe the plumber) from being able to afford the right to carry and defend and not create a financial hardship in this.
    Orange Beach Alabama has offered a free firearms basic course to it's citizen's before - that'd be great if others did the same if it were a requirement for your permit.
    For God, Family and Country!

  7. #7
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    If you really want to exercise your god Given Rights , don't start
    with judges - start with the Voting Booth.
    Ummm... We did elect this judge.

    He was the path of least resistance to concealed carry in our area.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Remember, the original purpose of RKBA was not to protect ourselves from criminals (although that has become more important with all the BG's roaming around), but to protect ourselves from the government.
    Do we have to do this again? So soon?

    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with protecting ourselves from government.

  9. #9
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    Sure it does! It protects our right to keep and bear arms from being infringed upon by the US government.

    Wait, that's not what y'all were talking about, is it?


    -B
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post

    All concealed carriers should be careful and prudent, but in our case we need to be even more so. We need to be model citizens, taking into account the sensibilities of our fellow citizens. The first accident, ND, or non-righteous shooting by a permit holder will probably be followed in the local press by the headline: "CONCEALED CARRY EXPERIMENT AND ABJECT FAILURE".
    I agree that being cautious and behaving while carrying a firearm is prudent. However, I caution you not to create an unrealistic standard for everyone with a concealed carry permit. There will undoubtedly be stupid people (with a permit) who do stupid things. You or I have no control over them. Even LEO's occasionally do stupid things (both on and off duty).

    A better approach is to make sure that the blame is assigned to the individual at fault.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array slimjim's Avatar
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    What county are we talking about?
    A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
    -- Sigmund Freud

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Do not become discouraged by any negative statements you get from anywhere!

    My state is full of liberal politicians with negative altitudes about guns. I never thought we would ever get the right to carry.
    Eight or so years before we got it state wide there was one county that gave out permits to any one that applied, without a criminal record; it was run by a Democrat prosecutor of all things.

    Other people in the state wanted him to stop, his response was, as long as it is in the US and state constitution I will follow the law. We now have the right to carry and the castle law.

    I am not sure if we didn’t have the one county doing it ahead of the rest that we would be carrying now.

    Call the judge and encourage him to become a true leader maybe run for governor!

  13. #13
    Member Array saunassa's Avatar
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    The idea of the judge wanting you to have training is not a bad thing. takes a bit of the wind out of the liberal anti-gunners.
    here we require training. it only takes a day of your time and you do learn quite a bit from it. A lot of info is learned including where you can and cannot carry, what you must do if you come in contact with a LEO and other food for thought. In fact the group that does ours give out a book specific to Minnesota for reading at home. Even after carrying for 5 years i learned new things.
    It is not rocket science and I feel that if you can't commit to this one day for something that can be life altering for you and the BG that i don't want you near me with a handgun.

    I know, i know, the 2nd amendment folks will be all over me but this is my opinion.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Man, this country needs more judges like him.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenInColo View Post
    Man, this country needs more judges like him.
    Something else that may help is getting a RKBA amendment in your state constitution if you don't have one. This seems to be a stepping stone to getting a carry system going, and with 3/4 of the US population believing its an individual right, I think it'll pass even the most liberal states if done right.

    Is that Suffolk County, NY by any chance? A recent court decision pretty much recognized Heller as applying to NY.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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