A civil argument with my "liberal" sister over CCW

This is a discussion on A civil argument with my "liberal" sister over CCW within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My younger sister and I went to a bar late at night to "celebrate" my 30th B-day. I never brought a handgun. I don't own ...

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Thread: A civil argument with my "liberal" sister over CCW

  1. #1
    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    A civil argument with my "liberal" sister over CCW

    My younger sister and I went to a bar late at night to "celebrate" my 30th B-day.

    I never brought a handgun. I don't own it at the moment while pending a move to upstate New York to avoid getting in trouble for a felony possession unless I obtain a possession license.

    I was "buzzed" and mentioned I will be living in NY armed after going through the hoops in a year period. I talked a little bit about my concern about the crime spots in Rochester, hence my getting a Utah resident license that will be converted to non-resident after relocation and applying for a NY license on condition of good standing. However, I did not bring up recent FBI statistics on crime (forgot where it is on the web) to "prove" my point.

    My sister seemed aghast that I would "dare" to be an armed citizen. She brought up her claim "concealed permit (??) is illegal in all of Europe" to disprove my view. Because when we entered the bar, I saw her flash a passport to the door guy (and pay membership fee for cover). I mentioned I have a passport and would love to visit France, Great Britain and Germany.

    We argued a little on gun politics while seated at the bar. I maintained control while being slightly drunk on strong beer and a shot of Capt Morgan.

    She argued I should carry pepper spray with me since I gave one to another sister who just got married prior to moving to Arizona. I said, somewhat sarcastically, that I prefer - paraphrased - "a brutal response to a dangerous [sticky] situation is the best method".

    I neglected to amend the statement that it should conform to what CFL class instructor calls "the totality of circumstance" in armed response that may or may not end up stopping the crime in progress peacefully.

    She responded with a drawing of a peace sign with the words PEACE, NOT WAR on the bill.

    I responded with a rambling statement about my political belief as an "independent libertarian at heart" and that "being an American is a priority in unconditional respect to the U.S. Constitution." I mentioned being a NRA member, although I did not add I'm also a card-carrying member of Gun Owners of America. I said to her, "if you're for gun control, join Brady."

    My sister seemed irritated that I stayed stubborn concerning my position on legitimate gun rights and self-defense. I told her "you don't know what will happen" after she made that peace/not war statement to rebuke her naivete.


    To make it clear, I did not go into the bar "carry". CFL instructor warned against this. But discussing gun politics -- other than general bantering about any political issue -- in the bar may be ill-advised.

    However, my sister remains cheerfully ignorant, believing that peace and "race cohesion" will reduce the predator's inclination to commit crime against an innocent person, property, violent or otherwise.

    It amazes me the "liberal Democrat" attitude towards the original design of the Second Amendment is hostile, helped by media propaganda and public position by the Democratic Party platform. I would be a Democrat if not for the stupid, blind attitude in support of gun control.

    Why don't some Americans quit being selective and just respect the U.S. Constitution for granting individual liberties that America is blessed to have whereas other parts of the world is deprived? Some Americans should get common sense education on the history and intent of the 2nd Amendment and even state constitutions guaranteeing gun rights where wannabe gun banners live.
    Last edited by JD; December 22nd, 2008 at 08:42 AM. Reason: Removed political content.

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    I would have puked on her and stiffed her with the bill.

    Just spreading my wealth around.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    The next time she draws a peace symbol in front of you, tell her that is the foot print of the American chicken.
    Last edited by JD; December 22nd, 2008 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Renmoved political content.
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    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I would have puked on her and stiffed her with the bill.

    Just spreading my wealth around.


    Thanks a lot, SIXTO. I must now go retrieve a towel to clean the coffee off of my screen....

    -Jeff-

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    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Sometimes, you gotta give up and let the sheep be sheep. As long as it won't have any impact on your right to not be...
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    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    However, my sister remains cheerfully ignorant, believing that peace and "race cohesion" will reduce the predator's inclination to commit crime against an innocent person, property, violent or otherwise.
    I've found that fear of serious injury or death is more effective at reducing a predator's inclination to commit crime against innocent people.
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    I've found that fear of serious injury or death is more effective at reducing a predator's inclination to commit crime against innocent people.
    Exactly. "An armed society is a polite society."

    My sister really needs a wake-up call. I was a victim of a bizarre simple assault as a pedestrian at the intersection in April 2005 and this introduced me to concealed carry idea. My sister came to the "rescue" to help bandage my wounds after I came home with scraped wrists and a bruised face.

    Yet a few years later, she opposes the right to bear arms in our recent hangout. Makes my head daze in amazement. Maybe she forgot about the incident so she needs a reminder the next time we meet for a family reunion. Just left for home in Arizona...

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Race cohesion? Is she saying that predators only pick on people that look like them or they pick on people that don't look like them? Sounds kind of racist to me either way. Clearly divisive. I don't think Barak would approve.

    As far as her peace not war....... Has she ever been in a morgue or a funeral home or even a cemetary at 0300hrs on a moonless night? Very peaceful.

    If someone violently attacks me and puts me in fear of my life, I wish them peace. My response may very well give them that peace against their will.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    TOF
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    Back in the old day's when people started heated debates in my Uncles bar especialy regarding guns, every patron moved one hand towards a hidden area on their person.

    Debates of that sort should be conducted someplace other than a bar. IMHO
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #10
    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Race cohesion? Is she saying that predators only pick on people that look like them or they pick on people that don't look like them? [...]
    I meant that when I commented on avoiding spots with significant Black population, she was "shocked" at my statement, interpreting my attitude to be racist.

    Far from it. I own an autographed book "Black Man with a Gun".

    The prerequisite to being a fearless armed citizen is refusal to be a victim after what happened in 2005.

    I was assaulted by a drunk white man. If I were armed and could defend myself in that instant, the belligerent scum would be better off dead. It turns out he has a long rap sheet. A waste of taxpayer money sending him back to jail for repeat violation of probation.

    Race is of no concern to me, but in current times, race relations between white, hispanic and black may not be on good terms now that Barack Obama is confirmed as president. I feel more alert whenever I visit the area that appear "poor" and "black or hispanic".

    Look at Detroit, LA and Chicago and tell me whether my fear of being harmed has to do with race relations -- gang warfare and criminal inclination to violence and lawlessness out of desperate economic necessities. One important thing about avoiding a sticky situation is to avoid the bad areas at all costs.

    My sister pointed out in our argument I have this "fear" she tells me should be let go because of stereotyping attitude.

    If I were armed in upstate NY, I would feel secure and less fearful after good training.

    Visiting Gun Defense blog updated weekly will dispel the misconception and gross ignorance that the right to own and bear arms, legally, will lead to social chaos.

    By the way, I support African American, Hispanic, Asian and other races of good standing in the right to arms as American citizens, not just White. The more the lawfully armed with conscience and knowledge, the better. What we need is a media campaign to dispel the fear-mongering propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    ...I support African American, Hispanic, Asian and other races of good standing in the right to arms as American citizens, not just White. The more the lawfully armed with conscience and knowledge, the better. What we need is a media campaign to dispel the fear-mongering propaganda.
    The video is an excellent demonstration of responsible gun ownership to defend self, loved ones and property. I cheer for the courageous people who fight back.


    YouTube - LA Riots - Gunfight In Koreatown
    Last edited by JD; December 22nd, 2008 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Merged posts

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Cyberdogg, One of the things I have found is that the leftists I know really like to try to spin what you say. I have spent a lot of time translating plain english to some of my wife's friends. It's not that they don't speak english, they just want me to be saying something I am not.

    If you say you don't want to go to an area that has a high crime rate, and they try to make it racial, ask them why they say that. Why are they making it racial? You don't know the people that live there, so why do they assume they are (insert ethnic group here)?
    I still don't know "who lives where" in Houston, but I can tell from the condition of houses, vehicles parked on the street, and how the vehicles and properties are maintained (or not) if I want to be there in the middle of the night. I can decide that without even seeing a single person.

    I have been in "poor" neighborhoods where the folks take pride in what they have and do the best they can and they take care of it. I would not hesitate to go there. Other side of the boulevard it looks like a combat zone. Am I racist for prefering to park near a perfectly restored AMC Matador instead of a burnt out Ford Taurus? I haven't even seen the owners so how could I be?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post

    My younger sister and I went to a bar late at night to "celebrate" my 30th B-day.
    ...
    I was "buzzed"....

    I maintained control while being slightly drunk on strong beer and a shot of Capt Morgan....


    Both of us had to stop discussing gun politics because it was getting tense, so after a little changing the discussion topics we left the bar and she drove while I was slightly buzzed. We never talked during the half hour trip to home.

    But discussing gun politics -- other than general bantering about any political issue -- in the bar may be ill-advised....
    People who are drunk rarely make good arguments. They have loads of passion but concepts, rationales and positions get all scrambled. Non sequiturs abound.

    I never argue with drunken persons.

    From your account in the OP, doesn't sound to me like you acquitted yourself well on this one.

    Pity, since the 2nd Amendment is a crucially important individual right for all Americans, including anti-gunners who are ignorant of the facts. And so many 2A supporters make cohesive, sound and persuasive arguments that benefit all of us strong 2A advocates.

    Your strident rhetoric in the bar is probably not a big deal for the 2A advocacy (unless some bystanders were listening in). But it might be a big deal for your sister's view on the issues involved.

    I hope your "celebration" was worth it.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array BeefyBeefo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Cyberdogg, One of the things I have found is that the leftists I know really like to try to spin what you say. I have spent a lot of time translating plain english to some of my wife's friends. It's not that they don't speak english, they just want me to be saying something I am not.

    If you say you don't want to go to an area that has a high crime rate, and they try to make it racial, ask them why they say that.
    It appears to me that Cyberdogg is the one that "made it racial" and not his sister:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberdogg
    I meant that when I commented on avoiding spots with significant Black population, she was "shocked" at my statement, interpreting my attitude to be racist.

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    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    If you say you don't want to go to an area that has a high crime rate, and they try to make it racial, ask them why they say that. Why are they making it racial? You don't know the people that live there, so why do they assume they are (insert ethnic group here)?
    Because the "leftists" are preconditioned to believe in race cohesion. (In other words, brainwashing.) Of course, they are immune to reality when they don't know the facts of life in regards to the correlation of crime related to poverty and marginal race relations.


    I have been in "poor" neighborhoods where the folks take pride in what they have and do the best they can and they take care of it. I would not hesitate to go there.
    My apology for a stereotypical assumption. I've been to "poor" white neighborhoods and it doesn't seem bad, at least during daylight. But being alert and armed is the best security guarantee regardless of the color of the residents in the community.

    I reiterate that it's better to stay away from known rough areas you learn about by word of mouth or gut instinct through sight and sense of alert.

    I was victimized in "West" Mesa, Arizona which is crime-ridden (always with the police helicopter hovering with the spotlight shining every other night when I lived there) compared to "East" Mesa which is "neatly suburban" and almost homogenized in Mormon/Christian faiths that the crime on the east side is minimal.

    West Mesa is somewhat densely populated with Hispanics (judging the nearby grocery stores I went to; I was tackled by a security guard/stationed police officer for alleged theft [I wore backpack as a bicyclist] but let me go after verifying receipt & never apologized for pushing me aside with force) while East Mesa is "exclusively" White.

    Racial stereotype? Your call.

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    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyBeefo View Post
    It appears to me that Cyberdogg is the one that "made it racial" and not his sister
    Yes, a Mel Gibson moment.

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