Carry position and holster - Question

Carry position and holster - Question

This is a discussion on Carry position and holster - Question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I currently have a Walther PPS in 9mm that I wear in a High Noon Split Decision - right hand (I am right handed) IWB ...

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Thread: Carry position and holster - Question

  1. #1
    Member Array Bloo's Avatar
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    Carry position and holster - Question

    I currently have a Walther PPS in 9mm that I wear in a High Noon Split Decision - right hand (I am right handed) IWB tuckable holster.

    I still consider myself new to cc - and as such, have a question about carry positions and holster selection. It seems that if I want to carry in the 5 or 6 o'clock position - I need to have a left handed holster - which would point the grip towards my right side - rather than away from it (as with a right handed holster).

    Does this sound right?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    I would think if you want to carry that far "back" aka around 6o'clock that you would want a small of the back (SOB) holster. It really depends on which way you want the gun turned for the draw. Palm out or palm in.
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    I'd consider that a very poor carry position with regards to access, concealment, and re-holstering as well as uncomfortable and perhaps even unsafe. Nevertheless, some do like it and if you are one who does the manufacturers do make SOB holsters for this purpose. Check them out on the internet.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    There are 2 different types of "behind the back" holsters. One is "palm in" and the other is "palm out." Some holster makers call these small of back (sob) and middle of back (mob) but the difference is which way your hand is positioned when grasping the weapon.

    I find that for concealed carry "palm out" or MOB is better if you don't wear a jacket. This allows for a tuckable holster and good concealment. If you wear a jacket all the time (like a sport coat or suit) then either works.

    For a righty palm out holster, you can get a lefty tuckable holster and use that IF it can be adjusted for zero or negative cant. Not all can, so be sure before ordering one.

    BTW, some instructors do no like MOB carry for/with automatic pistols. Apparently there is some issue with leaning against things and hitting the mag release. I find I do not have this issue but you might if you like to lean against tall counters or tables.

  5. #5
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloo View Post
    I currently have a Walther PPS in 9mm that I wear in a High Noon Split Decision - right hand (I am right handed) IWB tuckable holster.

    I still consider myself new to cc - and as such, have a question about carry positions and holster selection. It seems that if I want to carry in the 5 or 6 o'clock position - I need to have a left handed holster - which would point the grip towards my right side - rather than away from it (as with a right handed holster).

    Does this sound right?


    The farther around your back you go, the more cant you need.


    Photos courtesy of Galco


    Having the grip the other way (palm out) will result in you "muzzleing" your own body while drawing, that is pointing the gun at yourself, that's generally a bad thing to do.

    As stated above there is the "MOB" method that looks like this:



    With the MOB holster, it can be drawn without covering your body, but in my opinion it's not as an efficient draw stroke as the standard SOB holster.


    However, I would not advise carrying with either method if other ways are available.

  6. #6
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    I have grown accustomed to the Fist #41 IWB/SOB holster. It provides a 'palm out' reach and draw...for me at about 5:00.
    I'm right-handed, and this provides a right-hand draw...as easy as reaching for the wallet. With practice, this draw has become as quick as my strong-side holsters located at 3:30-4:00. It is very comfortable when sitting, and I find that my pants do not want to sag as much. The sidearm sits against my kidney...very easily concealed. I know several others guys who use this same position...palm out and against the kidney. (Not really a 'small of the back position...)

    Stay armed...whatever works for ya'...stay safe!
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    The farther around your back you go, the more can't you need.


    Photos courtesy of Galco


    Having the grip the other way (palm out) will result in you "muzzleing" your own body while drawing, that is pointing the gun at yourself, that's generally a bad thing to do.

    As stated above there is the "MOB" method that looks like this:



    With the MOB holster, it can be drawn without covering your body, but in my opinion it's not as an efficient draw stroke as the standard SOB holster.


    However, I would not advise carrying with either method if other ways are available.
    I respectfully disagree on this one. Palm out straight up and down carry of around 5:00 is a very popular option with those who do it, and the draw can easily be done without sweeping anything but the floor.

    For the OP, you are quite correct about needing a "left handed" pointing holster to carry right handed in this manner. But some makers make these specifically for carry in this manner, and tend to refer to a palm out right pointing (seemingly left oriented) holster as a right hand holster. Just be sure you and the holster maker are on the same page as to which hand you'll be drawing with, and which way you want the gun (or your hand) oriented.

    I carried this way for quite some time, found it comfortable enough while driving, concealing VERY well from the front, draw stroke quick and smooth (at first looks like you're reaching for a wallet). It has many pluses and is a viable option worthy of consideration. I am glad to still have it in my range of choices, though I now favor IWB with the VM2 as my number one choice.

    Check Mernickle and their PS2SOB for one option, another is DM Bullard with the Texas Concealed Carry or Fist with the #41 Small of Back.

    Have a look at this thread for more discussion on this method of carry. Link
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
    JD
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    Where did I say anything about 5 o'clock? I'm talking middle of back/small of back which last time I checked is 6 o'clock.

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    Member Array Solidgun's Avatar
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    I don't think it is safe to carry the gun in the lower back position as if you are pushed or slip on ice and fall on your back, you could have some serious injuries.

    I will stick to ankle, IWB/OWB (3 o'clock) or inside pocket.
    It is not "might OF", it is "might HAVE". It is not "could OF", it is "could HAVE". Go spread the word.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Never been a real fan of SOB carry, but when I have carried at 6 o'clock with previous 1911 models, it's been MOB carry. That's still the way I'd do it with an Uncle Mikes nylon when I do (not often), and sometimes I'll tuck something in there in condition two (Glocks) without a holster. I really need to start looking at a dedicated MOB holster, but not a fan of the thumb-breaks at all. Thanks to those who posted the pics though. Not many holster makers have MOB holsters. But I've never been able to accept anything but grip toward strong side for this method of carry.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    I don't care for SOB carry. I would rather do 4 to 5 o'clock carry with a 20 deg cant holster. Works better and less likely to paralyze yourself.
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Where did I say anything about 5 o'clock? I'm talking middle of back/small of back which last time I checked is 6 o'clock.
    Sorry for such a late response. The 5:00 reference came from the OP (said 5 or 6 o'clock). But if you check the MOB Galco picture you posted, you'll note it is off center a bit. Closer to 5:30. Perhaps this is semantics, but I'd consider SOB to be anything from roughly 5:00 to 7:00. And I also would caution against placing anything directly over the spine (though I've got the SOB Galco holster you posted for my Glock 19, never used it much). And I don't care for the thumb break on the MOB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod
    Never been a real fan of SOB carry, but when I have carried at 6 o'clock with previous 1911 models, it's been MOB carry. That's still the way I'd do it with an Uncle Mikes nylon when I do (not often), and sometimes I'll tuck something in there in condition two (Glocks) without a holster. I really need to start looking at a dedicated MOB holster, but not a fan of the thumb-breaks at all. Thanks to those who posted the pics though. Not many holster makers have MOB holsters. But I've never been able to accept anything but grip toward strong side for this method of carry.
    I agree about the thumb break. I can reference two easily that fit the "MOB" criteria without the thumb break.

    Mernickle PS2 SOB
    (I have one of these for a 5 inch 1911)

    and Fist # 41
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    JD
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    OK, had to run before I could finish my previous post.

    The reason that the palms out (away from the body) and a 6 o'clock carry position is a no-no IMHO is that there is a lot of wasted motion in the rotating of the wrist and the gun is almost as far away as it can be distance wise from a general defensive stance.

    5 o'clock isn't much better regarding the distance aspect, but it's better than 6, and the gun is a bit more accessible.

    The main reason I dislike 5-6 o'clock carry is that if you find yourself seated for extended amounts of time, you will find the holster painful and/or useless.

    I tried it for a while and I see no real benefit as you will still need a cover garment and if your going to have a cover garment a well concealed 4-4:30 position is not hard to obtain.

    About the only justifiable reason I've come across for a SOB holster is that it's the only way my wife could ever effectively deploy a 5" 1911 as otherwise her hand would be under her armpit before the gun finished clearing leather.

    Thankfully she doesn't have to carry that way.

    Then you have the above mentioned issue of falling on your back, while this one is subject to here say as I have not heard about anyone landing on the rig and damaging their spine, I do think it would be harder to draw from if you ever find yourself in a physical altercation and you end up in the guard position, but on the same note, that might be a good thing that while grappling your gun is secure under your body and your opponent can't easily disarm you.

    Six of one, half a dozen of the other, IMHO it's not that viable of a position to carry, but if it floats your boat, go full speed ahead.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidgun View Post
    I don't think it is safe to carry the gun in the lower back position as if you are pushed or slip on ice and fall on your back, you could have some serious injuries.

    I will stick to ankle, IWB/OWB (3 o'clock) or inside pocket.
    OMO, but how many times have you fallen directly on your back, and how many times have you fallen to your side.
    If you fall on your side while having your gun tucked into the 3:00 positon, you're going to injure a hip...so what's the difference between 3:00 and 5:00 carry? In my opinion, no bones...like I said, OMO.

    We each become accustomed to, and learn to live with, our own methods of carry.

    Stay armed...carry somehow...stay safe!
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    For some people, for whatever reason, SOB carry can be the only option. If this is the case for the OP, then I would probably take JD's advice on the holster style, and then get proper instruction on how to draw from such a rig safely, so that you're not a danger to you or anyone else.

    The same goes for crossdraw. It's not necessarily as evil as some folks think, provided you train to draw properly from that setup.

    And practice.

    Practice.

    Practice.

    -JT

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