Increased numbers of CCW permits - More scrutiny?

This is a discussion on Increased numbers of CCW permits - More scrutiny? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; After visiting packed gun shops this weekend and hearing owners on the phone answering questions about CCW classes, I wondered if the sudden increase in ...

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Thread: Increased numbers of CCW permits - More scrutiny?

  1. #1
    Member Array MattH's Avatar
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    Increased numbers of CCW permits - More scrutiny?

    After visiting packed gun shops this weekend and hearing owners on the phone answering questions about CCW classes, I wondered if the sudden increase in the number of permit holders is going to cause more scrutiny. I'm thinking in terms of more talk in the news about CCW, which might lead the uniformed and uneducated to start putting up signs in businesses.

    I have been carrying almost 2 years now and I tend to not even look for signs anymore in the places I frequent. If I go someplace new, I do give it a glance before going in and run my mind through the off limitss places.

    Hopefully, the off-limits spots will not increase with the growing number of permits issued.

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    Hopefully, they'll decrease as business owners realize they damage their business by posting "off-limits".

    BTW, Welcome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    After visiting packed gun shops this weekend and hearing owners on the phone answering questions about CCW classes, I wondered if the sudden increase in the number of permit holders is going to cause more scrutiny. I'm thinking in terms of more talk in the news about CCW, which might lead the uniformed and uneducated to start putting up signs in businesses.

    I have been carrying almost 2 years now and I tend to not even look for signs anymore in the places I frequent. If I go someplace new, I do give it a glance before going in and run my mind through the off limitss places.

    Hopefully, the off-limits spots will not increase with the growing number of permits issued.
    I've been thinking this is going to be a double-edged sword. On one hand, it is good that more people are getting their permits. Hopefully they vote. On the other hand, there is obviously more chance that some knuckleheads are going to pull some stupid stuff that is not going to serve the carrying community well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45Man View Post
    I've been thinking this is going to be a double-edged sword. On one hand, it is good that more people are getting their permits. Hopefully they vote. On the other hand, there is obviously more chance that some knuckleheads are going to pull some stupid stuff that is not going to serve the carrying community well.
    My thoughts exactly...
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    +1 m&p45

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    Member Array MattH's Avatar
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    I can't help but think that there are going to be a lot of people who are getting a permit as a knee jerk reaction to what is going on in Washington. But the one thing that I keep in mind is that unless they are really into it, they will get the permit and then not carry at all. That could be a good thing.

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    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45Man View Post
    I've been thinking this is going to be a double-edged sword. On one hand, it is good that more people are getting their permits. Hopefully they vote. On the other hand, there is obviously more chance that some knuckleheads are going to pull some stupid stuff that is not going to serve the carrying community well.
    Agreed. I think your point is well taken.

    The usual gun forum political correctness inhibiting justifiable criticism of gun-related knuckleheadedness may be in need of a little modification. Else, we may get some additional "reasonable regulation" that is legal, but which we won't like.

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    Senior Member Array mocarryguy's Avatar
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    I know at least 40 people who have their CCW. Out of those, no more than five of us actually carry. I have carried for 25+ years.
    Last edited by Miggy; December 24th, 2008 at 12:36 AM. Reason: removing unncesary information
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Hopefully, they'll decrease as business owners realize they damage their business by posting "off-limits".

    BTW, Welcome!

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    where can we get one of those cards ram rod? i could not find it on there site.

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    Another reason to love FL......signs mean nothing.

    FL certainly got that part of the law correct.

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    I can't help but think that there are going to be a lot of people who are getting a permit as a knee jerk reaction to what is going on in Washington. But the one thing that I keep in mind is that unless they are really into it, they will get the permit and then not carry at all. That could be a good thing.
    Philosophy speaking, puts pro-gun 2A crowd in a conundrum. Most pro-gun would argue the more armed citizens the safer the society from criminals. Then on the otherhand, at the very least as a mater or ratio, gun related mishaps would happen in greater # (at the very least total #, not considering % increase), as ownership increases.

    Agree with what you point out
    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    ...will get the permit and then not carry at all. That could be a good thing.
    If a person does not feel comfortable to CC, then it is best get the proper practice / training. But if they don't want to do that, I guess settle for not carry a lot.

    PS - I know a few people who aquired their CCW just because they support the cause (don't feel they need to carry, but politically speaking, want that right maintained). I also know a few that got the CCW to make traveling to events, firearm purchase, carry to range, etc easier.

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    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattH View Post
    I can't help but think that there are going to be a lot of people who are getting a permit as a knee jerk reaction to what is going on in Washington. But the one thing that I keep in mind is that unless they are really into it, they will get the permit and then not carry at all. That could be a good thing.
    What, exactly, are you referring to when you say 'what is going on in Washington'? I think I see where you're going, Matt, but I'm not sure you've thought it through. The mindset that a new administration is coming after our guns is panic mentality set upon us by the Republican right, who assumes we're stupid (let's not get into a political debate about what the Left assumes of us, fair?).

    On another note, I can't imagine anything worse than obtaining the permit and not carrying.

    No disrespect intended, pal. Just wondering.
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    Okay, here is the economics aspect of this. Businesses are not losing money yet at levels that can be discerned or appreciated. It will take a considerable amount of time before they will. As such, the No guns = No $$ cards/threats don't yet carry much clout.

    Here is what I ran for Texas CHL data in another forum...
    First of all, the vast majority of CHL holders are not so vehement about their licenses. Hell, a bunch don't even bother going to the range between CHL renewals and a bunch don't even bother to carry most of the time. So while folks may have CHLs, a LOT are not serious about them.

    Few businesses have a market that includes really large numbers of CHLs. Few geographical areas have 10s of 1000s of CHL holders and those that do are usually fairly large geographical areas. For any given business, chances are it is only a [very] small fraction of those CHL holders that comprise its market, either due to geography, pricing, age, sex, or product offered.

    Let's look at some statistics to put this in a more relevant framework. As of 2007, there are 289,000 CHL holders in Texas. The population of Texas is roughly 23,508,000. Of those, roughly 1/3 are under the age of 21 (less, actually). So there are about 15,750,000 adults over the age of 21. So CHL holders comprise approximate 1.8% of the Texas population over the age of 21. So the potential customer base or business being lost is a maximum of 1.8% of the eligible population (note this is 2-3 times bigger in some other states), but in reality, is just a tiny fraction of that number since only an tiny fraction of the CHL population is going to comprise the actual customer base for a store and care about the 30.06 (no guns) sign issue.

    Bottom line? With less than 2% of the >21 population, CHL clout is limited and 2% would be a generous estimate of "potential" clout only.

    Increases in CHL/CCW applications is a good thing, but it will still take quite a while before we have real $$ clout that businesses will feel.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

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    Member Array MattH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Van View Post
    What, exactly, are you referring to when you say 'what is going on in Washington'? I think I see where you're going, Matt, but I'm not sure you've thought it through. The mindset that a new administration is coming after our guns is panic mentality set upon us by the Republican right, who assumes we're stupid (let's not get into a political debate about what the Left assumes of us, fair?).

    On another note, I can't imagine anything worse than obtaining the permit and not carrying.

    No disrespect intended, pal. Just wondering.
    I would think the majority of people who have a permit still don't carry on a regular basis, if at all. I have known people that got a permit for whatever reason, never carried, and then let it expire.

    Something in the mind of lots of Americans has them going out in record numbers buying guns. My post was not meant to start a political debate. I could care less about politics.

    Toput it in perspective, the store I was in yesterday did $300,000 over the Thanksgiving weekend in a relatively small city in the south.

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