December 28th, 2008 12:15 AM
Some people should NEVER have guns
A few weeks ago a female coworker told me that someone stole her car's stereo right from her driveway. She asked me if she could shoot at someone while they were breaking into the car (why would you destroy your car??) I honestly thought she was joking or venting off. She was insulted because I laughed at her "serious and legitimate" problem. I asked how that would put her or someone else's life in imminent danger. She believes she has the right to defend ALL her possessions with deadly force. WHAT!
I tried to put some sense into her for two minutes, just to keep her out of jail, but I just wasted my time. I know that she got the gun. She lives in a neighborhood with lots of problematic juveniles so I honestly feel it's a matter of time before something bad happens. Have you encountered people like this?
Savage 93R17 FV
December 28th, 2008 12:20 AM
Well, your opinion has a lot to do with where you are located. In IL, I do not believe you have the right to defend property with deadly force. In TX, if you are attempting to steal my car (or the belongings therein) after dark(or during the day in certain circumstances), I can absolutely shoot you. Without warning, in the back. It doesn't matter.
Laws are very different depending on the state you are in. There are a lot of people that would not use deadly force to defend property regardless of the laws. There are a lot of people that will(depending on the law). The people that will, make our individual property, and our lives, safer for everybody.
Also, that whole "some people should never have guns" comment I find offensive. I spent several years overseas fighting for our rights and a lot of brave men lost their lives in order to create and defend those rights. I believe our founding fathers would have found it offensive, also. I think they even wrote something about it in the constitution...If I recall, I think it may have been the 2nd amendment.
Just my .02.
December 28th, 2008 12:22 AM
Lots, but North Dakota has the 'Castle' law, that extends to your whole property. This summer Jamestown had a rash of 14-18 year old 'gangbangers' that liked to tag property and rob cars.
You can see where lots of people had this attitude.
To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...
Richard Henry Lee, 1787
December 28th, 2008 12:29 AM
I look at it like this. Just because someone deserves to be shot, doesn't necessarily make it the best course of action.
How much is a car stereo worth?
Now, consider legal fees of hiring a lawyer to get you out of jail if you did catch a gangbanging punk that you sent to meet his maker.
Hiring a lawyer to get you out of jail.
Going to trial.
The unknown and suspense of being found guilty or not guilty.
If found guilty, (which is highly probable in Chicago), you just lost your lively hood, your earthly possessions like your house, your car or anything else that you can no longer make payments on and your freedom for a long, long time, in which you'll have plenty of time to reflect and think, "was it worth it"?
In the best case scenario, you are found not quilty, how much has it cost you? Enough to buy several of the best car stereos built.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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December 28th, 2008 12:50 AM
I can see why she thinks that way.. You work hard for your stuff only to have some scumbag steal it.. he'll get a year if your lucky and you'll never see your item again if he sells or ditches it.
December 28th, 2008 12:52 AM
Also, that whole "some people should never have guns" comment I find offensive. I spent several years overseas fighting for our rights and a lot of brave men lost their lives in order to defend our rights. I believe our founding fathers would have found it offensive, also. I think they even wrote something about it in the constitution...If I recall, I think it may have been the 2nd amendment.
Just my .02.
I think some people just should not have a gun. At least these people should be taught how to work with gun before giving this freedom. I saw a CCW owner took out a gun from his/her bag in the gun show. The gun was not check at the entrence. What he/she did scared a lot of people around.
December 28th, 2008 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution
1: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another
Seems pretty simple to me...that whole "shall not be infringed" does not leave a whole lot of wiggle room for people who you don't 'feel' should have a gun.
December 28th, 2008 12:59 AM
I would draw on a person and command to stop who I caught robbing my car or stuff from garage (in house?= dead). If they turned and ran I wouldn't shoot....(except if in house =death) If they continued I would shoot..
Like said before, in TX I can shoot a person in the back for stealing anything of mine....no matter the worth....in TX it's based on principal. Zero tolerance.
Once, a man shot a kid in the back (killed) stealing his son's bike and was cleared of charges.
December 28th, 2008 01:05 AM
Though I do not agree, there are some that feel the "right to bear arms" applies only to militia.
Originally Posted by U.S. Constitution
December 28th, 2008 01:07 AM
I assume she doesn't live in Chicago. It's illegal to even own and have a handgun there.
Originally Posted by CyberGuyPR
Thank you for attempting to talk some sense into her. Hopefully, it will have some delayed effect.
Years ago there was a TV show called "Kids Say the Darndest Things." Maybe Art Linkletter could come back and have one named "Newbies With Guns Say the Darndest Things."
December 28th, 2008 01:09 AM
Thankfully, that is not how our Supreme Court recently ruled and it is not the accepted interpretation of that statement.
Originally Posted by concealed
If it ever becomes the 'accepted' interpretation, I believe we will have a lot more to worry about than a woman who wants to defend her property against miscreants.
December 28th, 2008 01:13 AM
I absolutely believe that you should have the right to use deadly force to defend your property.
That being said, my state does not allow it, so I would not do it. There is a big difference between what you should be able to do and what you can (and thus should) do.
And even if I lived in Texas (where legal to do so), I wouldn't shoot someone in the back who was trying to break into my car...but I would draw on them and order them to stop.
My property is something that I worked hard to earn. I can never have that time back. If it takes you 10000 hours of work to pay for your car, answer me this: would you be willing to shoot someone if they had kidnapped you and held you in slavery for 9999 hours? The right of property is just as important as the rights of life and liberty.
(the answer to the above rhetorical question is probably yes, unless of course the state imprisons you for more than 10000 hours for doing so, which it would for non-justifiable homicide)
"Trust in God with hand on sword"
-Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately.
December 28th, 2008 01:22 AM
Exactly, who is to say who should and who shouldn't have them and by what criteria. This has already been hashed out in other threads.
+1 for Kerbouchard
I believe as HotGuns, everything has limits, just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean that is the only or best course of action. If you can light a candle with a match, why would you use a flamethrower?
Originally Posted by Kerbouchard
To answer your question I have heard people from time to time make stupid comments like that. I would say for the most part it is a bunch of anger and hot air, but you never know. I would wait until she is a little more rational in her thinking and calmly discuss other options for her to take if I was that worried about it.
Last edited by rottkeeper; December 28th, 2008 at 01:26 AM.
Reason: Revise Text
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27
December 28th, 2008 01:28 AM
Wow, I'm shocked by some of these comments. While the 2nd Amendment is a very important LEGAL precedent here in the U.S. and I may have to "use" it in court of law to defend my rights......the desire and RIGHT of self preservation was granted to men (and women) by GOD. At least in my circle: God stands taller above Man, so man can't take that RIGHT away from me and mine. Defending property is not allowed in my Socialist state, but I do root for Texas philosophy. Here on the left coast we protect our homes from home invasion with two simple rules: 1) don't let the wounded intruders crawl outside the house !!! and 2) when its over there is only one story, mine.
December 28th, 2008 01:35 AM
Protection of property, with common sense, should be allowed. Does that mean *I* would always shoot in that case? No, not necessarily, but the option should be there.
If there's some guy stealing potted plants off my porch, I'm not probably going to do much, but if someone is trying to steal my car, that's different. We're talking about something that is worth a significant chunk of money, and thus, a large portion of my life spent to pay for that car. In addition, it is what allows me to go to work, to school, etc. It is the key to the rest of my livelihood.
Sometimes defense of property can be justified.
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