Sitting in car waiting...and....
This is a discussion on Sitting in car waiting...and.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Today I was meeting my certified instructor for private shooting lessons. We were shooting at a range I've shot at several times which is across ...
December 29th, 2008 02:46 AM
Sitting in car waiting...and....
Today I was meeting my certified instructor for private shooting lessons. We were shooting at a range I've shot at several times which is across the street from the Orange County Jail. However, it's a pretty bad area with some pretty shady characters around. I drive a newer model nice looking Mercedes and pulled into the parking space in the small lot (obviously backed in to the parking space). It's actually in a lot with 5 bail/bond stores if that gives some insight as to the influx of shady characters walking around. Anyways, I don't have my concealed license yet, so I have the 5.7 in it's case on the passenger floor next to me, and my Glock 19 with 17 JHP's in the clip in the glove compartment. My instructor should be here in 5 minutes or so, so I'd figure I'd wait for him for a few minutes and rest before a few hours of shooting.
As I'm waiting, a pretty sketchy guy about 6'1 190 lbs, about 35 years old starts walking my way, with his path going 10 feet in front of my car, from left to right, drivers side to passenger side, perpendicular to my car. He is fairly clearly looking at Me/my car and feel like I'm being semi-cased possibly. I could have sworn with 1 step he readjusted his line closer to my car. He is at 10:00 and about 20-25 feet away.
I am not one to imagine things, although I do stay on relatively orangeish alert frequently. I was watching him extremely closely. Three questions questions: At this point, what would you do, if anything? And...at what point would you do something, and what would you do?
Thanks in advance guys.
December 29th, 2008 02:46 AM
December 29th, 2008 02:58 AM
stare back at him, take out the cell and call pretend to call the po po :P
S&W M&P40/M&P9c OC rigs
S&W 640-1 or Sig P238 as a CC rig
Second Amendment Foundation Life member
December 29th, 2008 06:04 AM
Dude, you are driving a posh car in in an area that probably does not see them, more like a dent free matching paint job is a nice car, you are going to get eyeballed.
It is good that you keep your SA up, but try not to over react when you are really standing out.
If something did become of it, stay in the car, windows up, doors locked, call 911, hand on weapon and covered. When JAM or AOJ gets met, then you can do something...maybe. I don't know FL laws.
Prosecutor is going to ask you why you did not just drive away if you felt there might have been a problem before hand.
Hit my limit for speculation, the sky is falling, and gun owners fighting amongst themselves.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!
December 29th, 2008 06:40 AM
I know this area and it's not a good place to hang around. However you are across the street from the Orange County jail! Lots of LEOs around.
The only people around there who would be driving a Mercedes are either a drug dealer or a lawyer.
I'm gonna guess you stuck out like a sore thumb. I'm gonna suggest you try to blend in a little bit. Try going there in an older not so nice car.
Being alert is great, but if you don't blend in people will stare at you.
December 29th, 2008 08:20 AM
Although I am not LEO and never have been, I used to work in a building were the undercover cops had their "department". I got to know a few of them. One of them admited that one night they "cased" me. Like you, I was driving a nice car in a poor section of town. While waiting for my brother in law to show and I was approached by a guy, who acted like he was looking to buy. I guess he recognized me and realized it was going to happen and moved on. It wasn't until the next week that I saw him again and he asked me what I was doing in that area. I never realized it was him, although I did remember the incident clearly. He really knows how to get scummy when he wants.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
December 29th, 2008 11:19 AM
You have the right and ability to drive anywhere you want in any kind of vehicle you choose. In some places you are going to be very high interest in a high end automobile.
The important thing is that you are situationaly aware. You were aware. You noticed your surroundings and you were watching for possible threats. You saw someone looking at you and your vehicle. That is to be expected. The question is what do you do? You maintain a confident attitude, you look right back. You let them know they have your attention and you are not intimidated. If you feel threatened after that you either put a gun in your hand, out of sight, or you start the car and drive around for the five minutes you are waiting for your instructor. If you arm yourself and still feel threatened then you call the police.
I know when you go places where lower income or higher crime populations are that it can be nerve-racking. Be alert, be aware, but also realize you are going to garner attention in a high-end vehicle. Just as you are in your rights to be there, they are in theirs to look, stare, admire and covet your car. People my walk around it checking it out for the simple fact they seldom see one. This can be very disconcerting, and even threatening.
We refer to the phenomonon of danger awareness as "spidey senses" or some other way. It it that feeling in your body somewhere that indicates that on a primal level, unconsciously, your mind has realized you are in a threatening situation. You don't indicate this, but maybe that is why you remember this particular person. If you get that "feeling", then it is time to act. That is the time to reach into the glove compartment and have that Glock 19 in hand while you wait, or just start the car and drive away. Never ignore that feeling, our species has been prey before. We remember subconsciously how to react, it triggers the fight or flight physiological responses to prepare us for what we are about to face. If you get that, listen to it.
But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
LTC(RET) Dave Grossman
Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook
December 29th, 2008 11:29 AM
I drive a big angry 4x4 jeep, and rarely get any looks unless its a fellow jeep owner. If someone was eyeballing me, they could look all they want. But, its like this. You can buy a gun, you can pay and take classes you can shoot millions of bullets. Your situation awareness is free and the best tool you've got. If potential BG want to do me harm, theres a good chance he's not going to just start shooting.
You've got to think, if you had to defend yourself there and didn't have a permit yet, what kind of trouble would you be in? Probably a lot. Its always best to try to escape the BG if you're not in immediate danger and you can get away safe. If he'd came to your car, the best bet is to crack the window a half inch and find out what he wants. If trouble starts, drive away quickly. If you have no choice but to defend yourself, plan on being in a lot of trouble. Once you have a permit, in an extended castle state, you're disco. But, until then you've got to remember you'd just be another statistic for gun control.
They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.
December 29th, 2008 11:40 AM
Thanks for all the replies so far people. To those thinking I'm surprised or something that somebody is looking at my car, that's not it. I went to one of the top 10 most dangerous high schools in FL. I'm very aware of how people with lower income perceive things such as nice cars going through bad neighborhoods. At one time, I was poor in a bad neighborhood too. I thought I mentioned this in my first post but I don't get freaked out whenever I see a grungy looking character. What threw me off was that it looked like he readjusted his path in direct with my car for a few steps and then readjusted back straight. He didn't look exactly homeless looking for change either since he had a chain around his neck.
December 29th, 2008 11:44 AM
I agree with most of this post. But, 2 thoughts:
Originally Posted by ImChad
I wouldn't be cracking a window. If my gut is telling me something is wrong, I am gone. Period.
I think I understand what you are saying here (in the second line in bold), and disagree.
A permit gives me permission to carry a concealed weapon in FL.
Nowhere does it change my right to defend myself. Nor, does it give me protection from a mistake I may make.
Your G19 was available and you had every right to use it if needed.
Having your CWFL or not has no impact on that.
But, the wrong prosecutor (one with an anti agenda), and you will still spend mucho dinero defending your actions.
Just my $.02 worth.
Last edited by miklcolt45; December 29th, 2008 at 11:44 AM.
Reason: clarify wording
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
December 29th, 2008 11:45 AM
Now knowing what you do, would a taxi be a better choice if you go back? Would it be legal to carry your firearm in a taxi w/o a CCW? I guess putting it in the trunk would be ok?
December 29th, 2008 11:58 AM
1. Not panic.
Originally Posted by Boosted J
2. If he turned to the car and really approached it, raise my right hand palm facing him.
3. If he continued to advance, I would slowly drive my very nice 4,300 lb. car safely away from the parking spot, taking utmost care not to run over the fellow.
December 29th, 2008 01:30 PM
Do you really think it's logical to take a taxi to the gun range? That sounds extremely unreasonable and unnecessary. I've been to this range 10 times or so.
Originally Posted by gicts
December 29th, 2008 01:43 PM
Was the car broken? If you're concearned, why not leave, circle the block, and come back in once your instructor arrived?
The best way to win a fight is to avoid it.
December 29th, 2008 02:10 PM
Best post of the thread.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
If he did approach, I'd certainly start the engine (if not already running). And drive off if you're really spooked.
As hinted in a post further up, he could have been LEO. Or could have been considering asking for a hand out (no, the chain means nothing, you should know better.... I've had a kid ask me for money to buy his brother a present, then after I said no, proceed to get into about the same as mine- fairly nice luxury car, not excessively old). Only time to draw the weapon IMHO here was if aggression began, and really you should have been leaving before it got to that point.
As to suggestions of getting a crappy car or taking a taxi... puhlease~! Somethings are just ridiculous.
Exercise your freedoms, go where and when you want, just do so cautiously. And remember, even though we want to be ready, not everyone is out to get us!
Regards, T Bone.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
December 29th, 2008 02:33 PM
Sounds like a visit to Universal nice range friendly people there as you stated the you didn't have your CWL yet, somebody suggested that you keep your gun at the ready in your hand but covered definately not a good idea considired to be concealed as for your car I have seen many high profiled cars in that lot,
Now for the guy staring you down in that area you definately gonna get looked at considering its across the street from the jail, why not get yourself a range bag keep it on your passenger seat when i was waiting for my CWL to come in and traveled to the range i had my range bag handy with my pistol loaded in one of the zippered pockets ready to go if i needed it,cause that is considered to be securely encased.you also may want to look into this book by Jon Gutmacher called florida firearms law great book breaking it down for all to understand or visit his site at ORLANDO CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY | AGGRAVATED BATTERY DEFENSE LAWYER JON H. GUTMACHER, Esq..
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