A very important draw component

This is a discussion on A very important draw component within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Oregon Shooter's video shows very well the use of the ''garment sweep'' as the essential precursor to actual draw. Reason I post on this is, ...

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Thread: A very important draw component

  1. #1
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    A very important draw component

    Oregon Shooter's video shows very well the use of the ''garment sweep'' as the essential precursor to actual draw.

    Reason I post on this is, as I walked back to house from office last night, I (as quite often) did a practice draw from under a woollen sweater. I fumbled enough to extend draw time a bit! I only wear this at home - out and about it is the usual front open shirt or similar.

    This is yet another aspect of my practice for this year - to improve on. Easy in summer if I have light shirt, vest etc, open at front and of course no way then will I be covered up as badly as now, so an easy drill to forget about.

    Add to this the two methods needed. First and obvious is weak hand sweep to displace, raise and clear the garment to allow access to gun - practiced most for me and more needed. But also there is the need to be able to do the strong hand sweep and clear - not so easy. This for me requires use of thumb and fingers to get inside and under the lower edge, such that then a smooth sweep can clear it.

    This latter is so easily fumbled - more so if stressed. I will be adding much more of this to draw practice - it is in effect the ''make or break'' element. I guess folks with tuckables also need to practice plenty.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Member Array CleaningAccident's Avatar
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    Chris, Ive pondered this a little bit too. I have to wonder why I dont carry weak side in a crossdraw. If I have to reach across with one hand or to clear a garment to draw, it really wouldnt matter much if I was reaching across with the gun hand or the garment hand.

    The only reason I havent changed is because with most clothes I can expose the weapon with my gun hand on top of my thumb, pushing it behind the grip as I grab it.
    If I always needed 2 hands, I would probably switch to weak side crossdraw.
    You better pray I dont jam, because my backup is a ball peen hammer.

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    Yes, practicing from concealed means sweeping clothing aside. with coats , I leave em open so a 1 hand sweep is used, for t-shirts or any other pull over , I use weak hand sweep. I find it works better.

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    Member Array oregonshooter's Avatar
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    In the Winter it is very hard to get past a jacket that is zipped up. Here it's too cold to leave them open so I use a slower method of jacking the material up with BOTH hand on the gun side. Then hold with weak hand while getting a grip with strong hand.

    One thing I do in the Winter is carry a S&W442 in the strong side jacket pocket. It will allow shooting through the pocket and give me time to get to the primary with the slower method.

    APEX or crossdraw allows a normal sweep with one hand no matter how much material you are covered in, but I have not found it to be my cup of tea.

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    Excellent point re the BUG/pocket carry Oregon - If I am totally done up and zipped up (rare) I'll do much same - sometimes if pocket large the R9 goes in, otherwise SP-101.

    Very wise move.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    I practice my strong side clear-and-draw almost exclusively one-handed. I practice with every type of garment wear I normally use IE. jacket, sweatshirt, untucked T, etc. I spend about 15-20 minutes 1-2 times a week drawing from different positions (unloaded of course).

    If you are switching up your wardrobe it only makes sense to take a few minutes and work up a solution to your draw while wearing your different duds. Even 5 minutes of practice with something new could help make the difference.
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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    Member Array oregonshooter's Avatar
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    gddyup,
    I've been toying with the idea of a one handed (read always consistant) draw, but am not sure I want to give up that much time.

    One handed under heavy cover usually requires a huge arc most of the time and I find myself needing to "stuff" the material behind the gun before drawing it to keep from hanging in it.

    One handed is the most universial method so I really want to use it, but it's also the slowest and if time is not of the essence I have time to do a "sneaky" draw.

    I do practice a one handed draw while pressing my weak arm against a wall as if I were ina clinch. I draw one handed to the retention "high two."

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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    The biggest reason I mainly use the one-hand approach is to allow myself to practice keeping my off-hand in a position to strike or protect my draw side from attack. I'll also practice 2-hand clear and draw but that's almost instinctual(sp?) regardless of what type of clothing I am wearing. I say that only because the clothes I wear are generally not very heavy. I very seldom wear a very heavy winter jacket or heavy sweater that would impede my draw time considerably.

    The way I look at it is this. If I have enough time to go to a 2-hand draw then speed probably isn't the most important issue. If I have the time to get 2 hands into play to clear and draw, then I'm probably working my way to cover or getting to a more advantagous position. If I'm at contact distance and need my weak side hand for defense or attack before my clear and draw stage, then speed IS a major concern. I want that one hand clear to be as quick and as memory as possible. I'll practice that draw to ready position and to "fire" position. In "fire" position I'll draw to "discharge" and "hold" positions so I'm not putting myself into memory of just "draw and shoot".

    I like your idea of drawing hard-up against a wall. Never thought of trying that one. I'll be doing it this weekend... :)
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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    Member Array oregonshooter's Avatar
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    OK, your logic is pretty hard to refute. I think it's just enough to put me into the same train of thought. :)

    Truth be known, I think there was a bit of me not wanting to switch because "fast looks cool." :)

    Practice both, but I think I agree that the one handed (from clinch) is the draw that should get the priority.

    See, this sharing thing really does work sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup
    I practice my strong side clear-and-draw almost exclusively one-handed.
    I agree 100%. Best to practice the most challenging technique, then you're prepared if you have to use it. I take the same approach.

    SSKC

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    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSKC
    I agree 100%. Best to practice the most challenging technique, then you're prepared if you have to use it. I take the same approach.

    SSKC
    Exactly. The way I have been trained and have trained is a parallel to this :

    If you can do it with your eyes closed then you can do it with your eyes open while hopping on one foot!
    Firefighter/EMT
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

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    I don't begrudge any Self Defensive shooter any carry method or technique or location as long as it's safe and they can gain FAST access to their protective piece & do it consistently.
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    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    As was pointe out, a one handed strong side draw while wearing a pullover will necessitate using the thumb to sweep the pullover. Now you've got to remember to hit the safety (I shoot a 1911). While forgetting this important part of the equation may sound really stupid, when you are being attacked and are holding off a tuy with a knife and "getting off the X" while drawing, it is quite easy to do. I would suggest that anyone who carries a 1911 or any other firearm with a thumb safety get an airsoft copy of your gun, a rubber knife and a training buddy and take turns doing this. Doing a Teuller Drill where the go signal is the start of the attack by the target is a real eye-opener.
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    If you can find the clip on line - watch the scene in the movie where Tom Cruise is a hit man taking care of the two thugs who had his brief case.
    That is some sweep and draw - even if it is movie it's still neat to watch.
    For God, Family and Country!

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    Army - that is indeed a slick move - one he probably practiced a lot.

    Here is the small GIF which nicely shows the main moves. It is very noticeable how much bend to left is used to assist the initial sweep.


    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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