Sitting at red light watching a man point his Glock at the driver's window

This is a discussion on Sitting at red light watching a man point his Glock at the driver's window within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wierdest thing --- I'm heading west on a major thoroughfare in Fargo, ND on Tuesday, December 23 (last week) just as another snow storm is ...

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Thread: Sitting at red light watching a man point his Glock at the driver's window

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    Member Array 1gunsnowbird's Avatar
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    Sitting at red light watching a man point his Glock at the driver's window

    Wierdest thing --- I'm heading west on a major thoroughfare in Fargo, ND on Tuesday, December 23 (last week) just as another snow storm is tapering off. I'm in four lanes, right hand lane, but not far right hand lane where traffic begins slowing and signaling that it wants to come back into my lane. I'm figuring a fender bender up ahead near an intersection and slow down. Just as I pull up close to the rear bumper of an old subcompact with it's front end nosed into the snow bank, the traffic light changes to red and I have to stop.

    So I'm about 10 feet from the rear bumper of what I figure is the back vehicle in a chain reaction crash and not paying much attention until I notice a man standing in the street just in front of the driver's door pointing what looks like a G23 Glock at the driver's side window and talking to the driver. He's in a red ski jacket with a dark stocking cap covering his ears and the top of his head and he's got something dark in his left hand. In his right hand is the Glock with the finger outside of the trigger guard. He's wearing jeans that are dragging in the snow and some kind of casual boots.

    I can't see into the car (can't recall if the windows are tinted or what), but I've got my G26 Glock tucked between the driver's seat and center console of my Honda Civic and a Ruger LCP in my back pocket. At no point was I tempted to draw either weapon because I don't know who this man is or what's going on in the little black car.

    When the light changes I drive slowly past and there's a little, older Asian woman behind the wheel with eyes the size of quarters looking really frightened. I keep heading west and see at least three people on cell phones, so I keep going because I've got cars behind me. Within another four blocks a police vehicle comes roaring my way with full lights and sirens, and I can hear others coming from other directions.

    After doing my business at the local mall, I head back to the scene 10 minutes later and at least three police vehicles have the little car boxed in and I can't see any signs of other cars or a tow truck. I call a few friends who also have CC licenses (and also shoot IDPA and IPSC matches in the summer) and we agree that if this is road rage over a fender bender, the guy in the red jacket has REALLY stepped over the line.

    I watched the news that evening but nothing was reported. However, the next day in the paper it was reported that an off-duty Fargo LEO had witnessed a male passenger assaulting this woman from the driver's side and he pulled in front of them to slow them down. Apparently the perp jerked the wheel to the right and drove them into the snowbank.

    When the police officer walked back and showed his badge (apparently it was the dark thing in his left hand which I mistook for being his gloves, because his gun hand was bare) and ordered the 29-year-old passenger from the vehicle he refused, so the officer drew his Glock. He apparently waited until other officers arrived before they ultimately used a Taser on him and he injured one of the arresting officers in the ankle before he was subdued.

    My reaction?

    First, I couldn't believe it could happen in the safest state in the nation where we might wind up this year with only TWO homicides in the entire state in 2008.

    Second, I was glad I didn't draw my own weapon and insert myself into a tense situation .. a point made abundantly clear by the fact that I didn't even SEE the bad guy in the passenger seat, just the driver.

    Third, I was VERY glad I actually had a weapon in case people started shooting each other so I might have been able to intervene with some potential effectiveness (if I could have ID'd the officer properly).

    It drives home a point I consider every time I carry a concealed weapon, that life threatening situations can come together REALLY fast and you have to be thinking clearly about all the possible scenarios and not react too quickly or with more force than the situation demands.

    As one of my shooting buddies said later (shortly after I said it out loud to myself as I drove away from scene): "Now there's something you don't see in Fargo every day."
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - Tom Waits

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  3. #2
    Member Array Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm10mmamen View Post
    It drives home a point I consider every time I carry a concealed weapon, that life threatening situations can come together REALLY fast and you have to be thinking clearly about all the possible scenarios and not react too quickly or with more force than the situation demands.
    Extremely well said.

    It is highly probable that, had you inserted your self into the situation in any way, you would have been very regretful.

    Great real-life episode. Thanks for sharing.

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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    You acted very intelligently

    Had you initiated a confrontation , and it was NOT an LEO
    things could have gone badly.
    -------
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    http://www.handgunlaw.us

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm10mmamen View Post
    Second, I was glad I didn't draw my own weapon and insert myself into a tense situation .. a point made abundantly clear by the fact that I didn't even SEE the bad guy in the passenger seat, just the driver.
    Hugely important point: In a situation where you don't know the players nor how it began, you're very likely to not have the first clue about which is the GG and which is the BG.

    Good on ya, for keeping your head.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Great example of how fast the day can go from normal to "oh crap".

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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Second, I was glad I didn't draw my own weapon and insert myself into a tense situation .. a point made abundantly clear by the fact that I didn't even SEE the bad guy in the passenger seat, just the driver.

    Third, I was VERY glad I actually had a weapon in case people started shooting each other so I might have been able to intervene with some potential effectiveness (if I could have ID'd the officer properly).
    I think you did well. Similar scenario's are discussed here about entering a scene that you have no prior knowledge of what or how things have happened. This is a great example of an off duty officer stepping into a situation that could have turned ugly for the initial recipient of the road rage instigator. Things do really happen fast. The one thing I like about this discussion board is that these stories keep things on the forefront of my mind and make me think. There are gazillions of possibilities and scenarios that can come into daily life and the more we discuss them, the better I understand all those possibilities and how they can effect me. Thanks for posting your experience.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    If anything, your story is a great lesson for those who shout "Shoot first, ask questions later." You cannot know what is going on and actions have consequences.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    mkh
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    Distinguished Member Array mkh's Avatar
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    Another point to remember - things aren't always what they seem.

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    that could havr turned out bad! Way to be patient and stay clear
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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    Member Array Darkwater's Avatar
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    Wow - Thanks for sharing and a great example of needing to ID the GG & BG.

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    Member Array Teufelhunde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    You acted very intelligently

    Had you initiated a confrontation , and it was NOT an LEO
    things could have gone badly.

    Had he initiated a confrontation, and it WAS a LEO (which it was), things could also have gone very badly.

    YMMV

    Lon

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Even tho in tx you can go to the aid of a 3rd party,if you don't know the full story you are getting into an unknown situation of ho the good guy and bad guy are,better off calling 911 and being a good wtness,you did the right thing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    You don't carry a gun to be a hero, you carry a gun to protect you and your's.

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    Good job with your clear thinking and making the right choice to drive by. That was a tricky situation and as everyone has said, you had no way to know the true state of the standoff since you walked into the middle. Had you pulled over, exited your vehicle and drawn your weapon the LEO would have no doubt moved his Glock in your direction as you were the most deadly threat and your motive was unknown to him.

    Thanks for sharing and this is another great example for not intervening in every situation you come upon.
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down & lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, & may posterity forget you were countrymen.

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    I'm glad you actually followed up and finally found out who the players were in that scenario.

    I agree that you acted appropriately by not intervening.

    When it comes to drawing my gun on someone, I have to absolutely have all the details possible.

    As you were describing the scene, I immediately thought the "man with the gun" was in fact, a LEO, but one never knows for sure. The last thing I want to be part of is a "mistaken identity" shooting event.

    I just appreciate the fact that you followed up on it and did find out it was a LEO incident.

    Sure is a stark reminder to "Know all the facts, before you react!"
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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