Ethical question - Going to the doctor and know I will have to remove shirt.

This is a discussion on Ethical question - Going to the doctor and know I will have to remove shirt. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I seriously jacked up my back (again) unloading groceries from the trunk of the CFOs car. This is a re-injury (4th time) of the squished ...

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Thread: Ethical question - Going to the doctor and know I will have to remove shirt.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Ethical question - Going to the doctor and know I will have to remove shirt.

    I seriously jacked up my back (again) unloading groceries from the trunk of the CFOs car. This is a re-injury (4th time) of the squished disk between my last vertebra and pelvis, unfortunately I fear that I may have ruptured it this time.

    Ever squish a cherry tomato between the roof of your mouth and your tongue? That is what it felt like when it went.

    I have been unable to move much faster than most old people with the walkers, let alone bend over, twist, etc.

    I carry IWB 3:30 - 4:00, and have never left the house without my baby baring the 1 week trip from hell to Idaho (and the 3 steroid injections).

    Presuming I can even get pants on, should I just suck it up and leave the EDC at home? The medical facility does not have a "No Weapons" policy or posting that I am aware of. They may rush me to a hospital or imaging facility for an MRI, not sure what is going to happen. I have carried there previously for all the other injuries, but those were more consults than exams.

    I know the whole "Carry to the Dr. Office" has been brought up lots of times, but this is a situation where you know in advance that you will have to expose, no "Change into this backwards robe, the Dr will be with you shortly" deals where you can wrap up your EDC in your clothing. I am fairly certain that they will do a "rush him to the back".
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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  3. #2
    JD
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    Do you have a method of securing it in the vehicle? If you're thinking you're going to be rushed off some place else, it might be wise to not carry in case you do end up some place that's not gun friendly.

    If you don't have a method of securing the gun in the vehicle, remedy that later and I'd just leave the gun at home.

    It is OK to leave your house without a gun every now and then.

  4. #3
    Member Array falkon's Avatar
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    Jd has the right idea here. There are times that you do need to leave it at home. This sounds like one of them. I hope you are back to normal soon.
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    Member Array ChiWeiSz's Avatar
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    Another thought - if you just couldn't bear to part with your weapon, how about having your significant other tag along, and if the inevitable happens, and you need to be rushed somewhere else - could you not just hand your weapon over to her, and she can keep it safe for you?
    Trying to leave as large a carbon footprint as possible.
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    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    Get to the doctor ASAP.! Leave baby home.

    Step 1. will probably be off to the MRI.

    If disk is ruptured STEP 2. will probably off to surgery ASAP (TO PREVENT PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE NERVES IN THAT AREA OF YOUR SPINE).

    Been there done that. Delayed surgery for 9 days because first doctor thought it was just a back sprain, 10 years ago. No feeling in right leg from knee to ankle and my right foot drags a little when I get tired.

    Do it as soon as you can.. Best of luck.
    bosco

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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    I guess if I knew I was going to be examined in such a way that my EDC would be an issue, I would leave it in my truck. If thats uncomfortable for you, leave it at home for your appointment. Like JD said, its ok to leave home once in a while without your weapon. Sometimes, common sense and practicality should take over.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Do you have a method of securing it in the vehicle? If you're thinking you're going to be rushed off some place else, it might be wise to not carry in case you do end up some place that's not gun friendly.

    If you don't have a method of securing the gun in the vehicle, remedy that later and I'd just leave the gun at home.

    It is OK to leave your house without a gun every now and then.
    Other than stuffing it under the seat, no. I am of the opinion that if I have to remove it and secure it in my vehicle, I have no need to be there.

    Insofar as "It is OK to leave your house without a gun every now and then. Mr Murphy is a baaaad man.

    Call me paranoid, but my Karma has not been real conductive to a "peaceful journey" more often that not. Fortunately skill gets me out of what others stupidity got me into (unless I am on my motorcycle, then it is "Skill gets me out of what testosterone got me into.")

    Anyhow, I have been kicking around this little delima for the last 36 hours, and am leaning towards leaving her home.

    Knowing I will be in a situation that I will needlessly expose my CC, comes across as brandishing or showing off.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #8
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Other than stuffing it under the seat, no. I am of the opinion that if I have to remove it and secure it in my vehicle, I have no need to be there.

    Insofar as "It is OK to leave your house without a gun every now and then. Mr Murphy is a baaaad man.

    Call me paranoid, but my Karma has not been real conductive to a "peaceful journey" more often that not. Fortunately skill gets me out of what others stupidity got me into (unless I am on my motorcycle, then it is "Skill gets me out of what testosterone got me into.")

    Anyhow, I have been kicking around this little delima for the last 36 hours, and am leaning towards leaving her home.

    Knowing I will be in a situation that I will needlessly expose my CC, comes across as brandishing or showing off.
    This very post is why you need to be able to secure your gun in the vehicle, you do have reason to be at the doctors, you do have reason to go to the hospital, you may later have a reason to go to court...there are plenty of places that one may have to go where carrying a piece is not an option.

    Being able to secure you firearm in the vehicle is a good middle ground for these times, yes Murphy is a back stabbing, two faced, scoundrel...that's why when I have to go to the Docs, I can lock my gun in the car and only be unarmed while in the office and in and out to the car IF I deem it appropriate to do so.

    Not saying you have to do this, I have migraine headaches and the last one was a real brute, before Lima had to drive me to the ER, I made damn sure I was unarmed, mainly because I was in no state of mind to be carrying, and I new I was probably going to be doped up at the time of discharge.

    Now had I not been able to have Lima drive, and I had to drive myself, being able to secure the gun in the car would have been a good thing.

    I'll just throw this out there, but the COM safe IS money well spent IMHO.

  10. #9
    Member Array bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boscobeans View Post
    Get to the doctor ASAP.! Leave baby home.

    Step 1. will probably be off to the MRI.

    If disk is ruptured STEP 2. will probably off to surgery ASAP (TO PREVENT PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE NERVES IN THAT AREA OF YOUR SPINE).

    Been there done that. Delayed surgery for 9 days because first doctor thought it was just a back sprain, 10 years ago. No feeling in right leg from knee to ankle and my right foot drags a little when I get tired.

    Do it as soon as you can.. Best of luck.
    bosco
    Hold on there. Before anyone gets you into a frenzy, to the OP: is it ONLY back pain or do you have symptoms similar to the ones described above (i.e. pain and/or numbness and/or weakness in the leg(s) or feet? Back pain is NOT an medical emergency, no matter how much it hurts. Objective weakness (not just 'feeling' weak but muscle weakness that is measurable by the doctor) in the legs or feet or loss of bowel or bladder function is a different matter.

    MRI may be the next step, but whether or not it will even be the same day will likely depend on into which of the above categories you fall.

    Good luck. Hope all turns out okay.
    HK45c V1

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    for what it is worth the places I have had a MRI or CT scan had lockers to leave your "valuables" while being examined. As far as while in the doctors office I have had no problem when the Doc wanted to examine me I informed him and he went out to let the nurse who would be coming in shortly to assist not to be alarmed at the weapon.

    If you ended up being dispatched to the hospital (probably unlikely) that may be another issue. Recently, with the same issue I mentioned earlier I ended up in the ER of one of our local hospitals. Once into the room where I was asked to disrobe I placed my pistol in the bag with my belongings which stayed with me.

    One poster suggested giving the weapon to the Significant Other if required to disrobe or go off to another facility. Keep in mind unless she has her CCP/CCW then that may not be legal...

    Good luck I hope the back gets better soonest.
    rolyat63
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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Yeah, I probably ought to look into getting one for each of the vehicles. I just have to get over the feeling of "If it is not on me or within reach, then it is not in my control", and would really not be pleased if the car got stolen, and I added to the Brady Bunch's statistic of criminals stealing guns.

    Hold on there. Before anyone gets you into a frenzy, to the OP: is it ONLY back pain or do you have symptoms similar to the ones described above (i.e. 1.pain and/or numbness and/or weakness in the leg(s) or feet? Back pain is NOT an medical emergency, no matter how much it hurts. Objective weakness (not just 'feeling' weak but 2.muscle weakness that is measurable by the doctor) in the legs or feet or3. loss of bowel or bladder function is a different matter.
    Lets see,

    1. Oh Yes
    2. Getting there, more like I hit my limits in movement real quick like
    3. As embarrassing and potentially graphic as this is, having a seat on the throne is not a pleasant experience. Lets just say I get real nervous every time I cough, and I am still fighting the leavin's of a bug.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Ethical question - Going to the doctor and know I will have to remove shirt.
    IMO, at best it's a simply question of courtesy, not about ethics.

    If I'm found to be carrying, he/she is an adult and can deal with it. It's not illegal (Oregon), and it's not harming anyone ... other than an overly-sensitive doc's sensibilities perhaps.

    In my case, I typically pocket carry if I'm heading to an appointment with a doctor, thus any need to disrobe simply ends up being that and not some long discussion about being armed. Generally, the clothes are left right next to me on a chair or in a locker (as in the MRI example previously mentioned). Works very well. Longer, surgery-type situations where you'll be "out" for some time are little different, so long as storage is in a locker that keeps your things from prying eyes.

    Knowing I will be in a situation that I will needlessly expose my CC, comes across as brandishing or showing off.
    Needlessly exposing it isn't something one should do, sure. But, here's the thing. There are two reasonable needs: self-defense, and something benign like disrobing. There are barbaric places that deem mere sight of a gun or holster (or even "printing") constitutes brandishing but, generally speaking, brandishing requires intent to intimidate.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Your situation may be different than what I would encounter, but I would leave it in the car vs. leaving it at home. The drive to and from work (and leaving/entering my garage) are likely the most dangerous parts of some of my days.

    If you are concerned you will expose the weapon when you transfer to your car, just place it in your car before you leave your house.

    I had some MRI tests done the other day, and I left my weapons in the car. I didn't like it, but I did it. (Against the law to carry in hospitals here.) If you're concerned about theft and don't have a car safe yet, park in a very exposed area if possible, such as the front row facing the hospital, or something like that.

    Back injuries are no fun. I hope you get some good news from the doc.

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    Member Array H8SPVMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Other than stuffing it under the seat, no. I am of the opinion that if I have to remove it and secure it in my vehicle, I have no need to be there.

    Insofar as "It is OK to leave your house without a gun every now and then. Mr Murphy is a baaaad man.

    Call me paranoid, but my Karma has not been real conductive to a "peaceful journey" more often that not. Fortunately skill gets me out of what others stupidity got me into (unless I am on my motorcycle, then it is "Skill gets me out of what testosterone got me into.")

    Anyhow, I have been kicking around this little delima for the last 36 hours, and am leaning towards leaving her home.

    Knowing I will be in a situation that I will needlessly expose my CC, comes across as brandishing or showing off.

    No, but you may put the doctors, or those that are trying to help you in a precarious situation. They may end up in charge of your baby and they probably don't want that charge. I'm sure they have procedures though to handle your gun toting butt but I don't think you'll enjoy the retrieval process.
    Call the doctor, be frank and ask if this is really an issue. He can and will direct you to make the right decision. I mean, afterall, you trust him to make the right decision about your back, right?
    Certified Glock Armorer

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H8SPVMT View Post
    ...Call the doctor, be frank and ask if this is really an issue. He can and will direct you to make the right decision....
    That answer will be, without a doubt, "Do not bring it in" and will likely result in a posting at the door at all their facilities.

    I mean, afterall, you trust him to make the right decision about your back, right?


    My opinion on the medical profession is "Guesswork in a white lab coat". Especially when you are dealing with a work comp issue like this one. It took them 3 months of PT and no results to get them to do an MRI to begin with. "Oh look, it's squished flat and pressing on your sciatic nerve, no wonder."

    Statistically frightening as this is, more people are killed every year in the USA by medical "Boo Boo's" than guns (using the Brady Bunch's numbers for that one).

    So, no I generally do not trust them, but I have little choice since they still have not come out with the hand held MRI scanner or 3D holographic imaging for the home.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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