The importance of testing your carry gear
This is a discussion on The importance of testing your carry gear within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; [QUOTE=ExSoldier
I'll never again own a 1911 with less than a 4" barrel.
I would like to see posted all the details about this ...
January 22nd, 2006 04:40 PM
Some details would really help
I'll never again own a 1911 with less than a 4" barrel.
I would like to see posted all the details about this short 1911 you had problems with.
Type of Extractor used internal or external?
Like the Ammo. you were shooting when it failed? Factory new brass case? Ball FMJ or JHP and their their weights?
The condition and type stock? or? And load weight of recoil springs used?
Did you try many different types and weights of recoil springs when trying to stop failures?
Was the BBL. breach checked for being in tolerance? Meaning for Factory new brass case Ammo. not reloads or steel case Ammo.?
The brand and type of Mags used when it failed? How many time they were used? Did you try other Mags?
What was used to lub. slide?
Did you ever send the 1911 with problems back to the guns Mfg.? And if so what did they do? And what if anything did they find wrong?
Explain the type how the failures happened? And what was tried to fix the failures each time?
Not trying to put anyone on the spot here I just would like to understand more about the failures. I feel any input would be helpful to others reading this thread.
Last edited by HappyGunner; January 22nd, 2006 at 05:43 PM.
January 22nd, 2006 04:40 PM
January 22nd, 2006 05:30 PM
100% Road. ALways, Always, ALWAYS check your gear you are depending on. Make it an absolute need. You need to know it's going to work when you need it because your life may very well depend on it.
A gun that goes "BANG" when you expect it to go "CLICK" isn't half as dangerous as a gun that goes "CLICK" when you expect it to go "BANG". Make sure your gear is ready to go.
"You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.
<----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)
January 22nd, 2006 05:49 PM
Exactly why i found out my Chip McCormick mags had issues with hP's. I was testing loads for carry and breaking in my new SA. Until I get enough ammo thru it and feeel it is 100% reliable, I will not carry it.
January 22nd, 2006 06:34 PM
Well, well, well I think young grass hoppa may be ready. The secret code is Combat Proven, and the secret knock is 2 knocks, pause, 1 knock, pause, 4 knocks, pause, 2 knocks, pause then 6 knocks, and say combat Proven. Now for anyone who thinks I just gave everything away, the secret knock and code is changed for each new member, so after this it will be different.
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
January 22nd, 2006 06:53 PM
Here's the REST of the story...
Originally Posted by HappyGunner
When all of this was happening, I took the gun (each time) to the IDPA match and had my buddies run the gun with their ammo and sometimes their own mags. I shot their guns of a similar type and they critiqued my technique looking for errors to see if it was an operator failure (limp wristing etc) which I asked them to do.
When I shot their guns of similar type they failed. Horrified, they took the gun back and tried it...and the gun failed. Some folks began to whisper that somehow I had offended the ghosts of John Moses Browning and Samuel Colt and I was cursed....be that as it may, my first problems were with a ParaOrdnance P10 and it was a POS Jam-A-Matic with tons of FTFs and FTE's. Ammo wasn't a factor it happened with multiple types of factory as well as reloads. Mags weren't a factor as it happened with many folks mags. I musta swapped mag springs a dozen times. I should buy stock in Wolff. I got rid of the ParaOrdnance and weakly acknowledged the assembles members We tried to TELL you! comments. Then I wanted to try a Springfield Armory "micro" which felt really nice in my hands. Again the club membership (well the leadership and old members) tried to counsel against it. I waved them off and went my own way. It happened again!
This time, there was a definite problem with the extractor and I sent it back to the factory but it came back still defective. I took it to my local gunsmith "The GUN DOC" of Florida, himself a world class shooter (IPSC not IDPA) and renowned for his custom gunsmithing services. The owner, Dave, told me to DUMP the gun, even as he was advising a customer on the phone with exactly the same problem...to do the exact same thing he was advising me to do!
That was enough for me. I traded it for a slightly used Sig P245 + $100 and it was possibly the best deal of my life. The Sig is now one of my 3 standard carry guns. None of those is a sub 4" 1911.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
January 22nd, 2006 08:37 PM
Test, test and retest
I couldn't agree more about testing your carry gear...and not just once!
Shoot the snot out of your carry piece...if it can't take it than it is a piece of you know what!
I've learned that IDPA makes a great opportunity to continually test your carry equipment. If you have a problem with your gun or carry system, it will likely show when you are shooting under time and pressure. And don't worry about wearing the darn thing out...that is something to be proud of!
January 22nd, 2006 11:28 PM
Amen ! thats one reason I'll be putting a coupla' hundred rounds through the new lil' colt mustang on tuesday...
January 22nd, 2006 11:59 PM
I do not want to knock kel-tecs, but the quality control is a problem.
My P3AT had problems the first 400 rounds (FTF, FTE, stovepipe). I have, I hope, addressed the problems. My P11, has had problems since day 1 (FTE, stovepipe). What do I do? Fluff and buff, change this geegaw, cut that spring, retourque the extractor, worry about the firing pin, count on a quick turnaround time w/ a failure (will my dependents do that???)
The promise of the value proposition of the P11 @ $230 was was good, but the execution was horrid. Anyone thinking bout a P11, go to CDNN and get the Walther P990 (DAO) for $300 and get a 9mm out of the box reliable w/ a better trigger than a P11. I just bought 2. 1 for my wife in her nightstand (who is taking her NRA class next week and not excited about firearms or training for that matter) and one for my anti-carjack kit. I've shot 800 rounds on hers (to test for reliability) and only cleaned it once after 300 rounds. shot two handed, one handed, strong hand, off-hand, tried to limp wrist and not a one problem. On the other hand, my P11 is only good as an impact weapon.
Rant over. Shoot in training what you will shoot in SD. Make sure your SD system (weapons, ammo, gear, TRAINIING) work in training so that they will work in an actual SD encounter.
I never could understand why someone would use different gear (alter the SD system) in competition or training than they actually do in SD. Makes no sense to me. Well, maybe they value a better position in the competition than they do in SD survival. I want the SD survival and to heck w/ the competition stats.
January 23rd, 2006 12:14 AM
sojourner, sorry to hear of your experience with Kel-Tec, but every company produces lemons. ALL of them. Kel-Tec may have more than others, but I don't think they're really any worse than others in their price bracket. If $250 is all you have to spend (as I did this summer) they're as good a bet as any. Function test it before you trust it, but if it proves reliable you should be good to go.
“Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V
January 23rd, 2006 12:20 AM
My thinking now with KT is - (and having sold my G1) - is this G1 or G2?.
It does seem as tho G2 has at last gotten a good platform - I would if not having R9, consider getting another.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
January 23rd, 2006 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
Glad you're happy w/ the kel-tecs. I am going to put my P11 up on consignment at the local gunshop. It was not reliable for me. For $70 more, I have a german made uber reliable 9mm luger pistol for self defense. And all my wife has to do is point and squeeze.
Kel-tecs have a good reputation among the tinkerers. I am not a tinkerer. I hope your kel-tec proves reliable and good for you.
January 23rd, 2006 02:15 PM
I agree about testing, particularly with Bud White who mentions testing not only your firearm but also the belt, holster, etc...you could be betting your life on it someday
February 4th, 2006 11:39 PM
I reload so I shoot pretty frequently, however, I do run factory 230gr Federal Hydrashoks through my 1911's once in a while just to make sure everything functions properly since that is what i carry. Yes they are more money than my reloads, but it is good to know that my carry ammo doesn't jam, feeds reliably, and is accurate
February 5th, 2006 03:38 PM
I don't like saying things that insult or come off like "there's only one True Way," but. . .
I find the very idea of depending upon something that is intended to "save my life" in a worst-case scenario without testing or trying it out, personally, is just plain STUPID.
I realize I could have softened that by saying it wasn't consistent with good critical decision-making skills, or not the best of a survival instinct, but neither gives an accurate description of how strongly I really feel about it.
No, I've never tested the airbags in my truck. When it comes down to it, I'm NOT depending on them to save my bacon, I'm depending upon my defensive driving skills. The fact that the truck comes with the airbags is a "plus," but if I actually depended upon them, I might not drive so safely. . .
I don't care what brand of gun, bullet, or holster is being discussed. If you depend on it, you alone must be certain it will do the job when the time comes. I'll quite close-mindedly, emphatically state that depending solely on the word of advertising hype, or word of mouth that it won't let you down, is just plain bliss-ninny-STUPID.
Normally, I'd end such a post with a "no offense intended" statement and an apology to anyone so offended, but not this time.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
February 5th, 2006 04:21 PM
Maybe the guy mentioned earlier in the thread who never fired his carry gun would appreciate this quote from Voltaire: "If you find life boring, risk it."
I test-fire each of my pistols, defensive loads, and magazines before I carry them. I had a couple of FTEs in the first 100 rounds with the first one, but none since with it and never with any others, several thousand rounds later. So it was probably me rather than the pistol. I also learned that the restricted capacity 10 round mag would not fire 10+1, while the standard 13-round magazine fires 13+1 perfectly.
I'm certainly glad I learned those things in testing rather than elsewhen. I don't find life boring.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" Patrick Henry (ironically a slave owner), 1775 Mar 23.
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