Selecting ammo in the right package

Selecting ammo in the right package

This is a discussion on Selecting ammo in the right package within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I heard somewhere that it helps a persons case in a shooting (any help is good, even if the shooting is legally justified, no?) that ...

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Thread: Selecting ammo in the right package

  1. #1
    Member Array MikeGoob's Avatar
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    Selecting ammo in the right package

    I heard somewhere that it helps a persons case in a shooting (any help is good, even if the shooting is legally justified, no?) that the ammo you choose should say 'personal defense' on the box. As opposed to saying something like 'for hunting' or 'extreme killing' or 'Bobs slaughtershot'. Thoughts?

    Second, I cant find very many brands of good ammo with 'personal defense' on the box. eg: Hydra shok does but HST doesnt.


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    New Member Array bobbocow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGoob View Post
    I heard somewhere that it helps a persons case in a shooting (any help is good, even if the shooting is legally justified, no?) that the ammo you choose should say 'personal defense' on the box. As opposed to saying something like 'for hunting' or 'extreme killing' or 'Bobs slaughtershot'. Thoughts?

    Second, I cant find very many brands of good ammo with 'personal defense' on the box. eg: Hydra shok does but HST doesnt.
    I think it's possible that your choice of ammo could be "used against you".

    There was a case a few years ago, in Arizona, I believe, where the type of bullet used was considered relevant. IIRC when jury members were interviewed after the trial, they questioned the neccessity of using such an "inhumane" round for self-defense. I think it was a 10mm JHP. Here is a link: Trail of evidence - Trail of Evidence- msnbc.com

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    New Member Array bobbocow's Avatar
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    Here is the relevant statement by the juror, from page five of the above link:

    "And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used.

    Elliot: The whole hollow point thing bothered me. That bullet is designed to do as much damage as absolutely possible. It’s designed to kill. "

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    If you don't want to defend your choice of ammo, use whatever law enforcement in your area uses. It really shouldn't matter in court but that's not going to stop a lawyer from trying to portray you as a stone cold killing machine because you used ammo called "The Terminator", or "The Skull Crusher". In some cases it may come down to "perception" and have nothing to do with actual ballistics.

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    VIP Member Array NCHornet's Avatar
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    I agree, I have never heard about the "personal defense" being on the box, but I have heard it might be good to use what the local LEO use. I think if your case is going to come down to what type of ammo you used, you are up the creek already. I carry HST is everything that I can, and in the BUG it is BB Gold dots. I want performance first, if I must justify it in court I will. "All I know is the gun shop said it was good ammo and it was on sale, so I bought some!!"

    NCH
    When Seconds Count, The Cops Are Just Minutes Away!!
    Carry On!
    NCHornet

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    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbocow View Post
    Here is the relevant statement by the juror, from page five of the above link:

    "And this juror was disturbed by the type of bullets Fish used.

    Elliot: The whole hollow point thing bothered me. That bullet is designed to do as much damage as absolutely possible. It’s designed to kill. "
    This whole issue was imo only relevant in this case because the defense allowed it to be. It is relatively easy to justify the carriage of hollow point ammunition. You carry a lethal tool for self defense when seconds matter. In the interest of self preservation, you simply made the 100% legal choice to use the most effective ammunition available to you to stop the perceived threat to your life.

    With that said, IANAL and I don't ever want to be in a position to justify my ammo choice to a jury - that'll be the least of my problems then. For what it's worth, I carry Federal HST and the local sheriff's dept. carries Gold Dots.

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    Member Array MikeGoob's Avatar
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    My gun store does do a good job of teaching and recommending ammo, but more and more I buy stuff online, and I do check the box for 'defensive' markings.

    By the way how do you find out what your local police use? Im in a big city and the cops dont talk to people unless theres a problem.

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    Member Array ecnovaec's Avatar
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    I don't understand why they didn't counter with saying how a hollow-point will STOP in the target, whereas an FMJ will pass right through possibly hitting innocent bystanders. If anything, it shows they are informed and concerned about the well-being of bystanders.

    my .02

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    I carry what I feel will be the most effective at keeping me alive. Not going to concern myself with "what will they think" until after I survive the incident. At that point, it is up to the attorney to do a proper job of getting across the purpose of my actions.

    I do not shoot to kill. I shoot to stop. To stop the action which was threatening my life. Period. Sounds like in the referenced case, the defense either failed to get the message across, or failed to properly weed out an anti (who might not "get" the message) from the jury pool. Reasonable people not predisposed should be able to grasp the concept of shoot to stop.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    I buy a lot of ammo at Wally World. If it's good enough for Wally World, it's good enough for me.

    Seriously though, if its ammo available on a wide basis, I would think that there would be very little controversy in a self defense situation.

    Most of my SD ammo is Federal Hydra Shok. It's pretty common, and anyone can buy it.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    Senior Member Array allenruger's Avatar
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    It's always been my thinking that if I am forced to protect myself or family that I want a bullet that works! I purchased, and practiced, with the most reliable pistol I could find so why wouldn't I want the best ammo as well. I have to survive the confrontation FIRST before anything else happens. OMO
    Allen

    -"I may get killed with my own gun, but he's gonna have to beat me to death with it, 'cause it's going to be empty." -Clint Smith

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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    Let’s face it if you’re going to shoot someone your primary concern isn’t the saftey of person you are shooting.

    The reason the jury was left with the impression that it was bad ammo was poor defense, the way I see it.

    The defense never brought up the proprieties of ballistic wound channels, primary or secondary or the ability of a FMJ to sail through the intended into a non intended target.

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    Member Array Dany's Avatar
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    Yea, might not wana call them 'people killers', but any mainstream produced ammo you would probably be ok. If you hand casted something nasty and homemade, that might be sticky.
    ‘‘To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them...’’

    — Richard Henry Lee, 1787

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    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    Who cares what type ammo you have. Aslong as it's in a defensive caliber and not like a .454. You'll be ok

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    I don't really worry about it. A competent lawyer will know how to handle that issue.

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