A question for our Texas members

A question for our Texas members

This is a discussion on A question for our Texas members within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been participating in another thread regarding the killing of someone for stealing. This brought to mind a situation I found myself in about ...

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Thread: A question for our Texas members

  1. #1
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    A question for our Texas members

    I have been participating in another thread regarding the killing of someone for stealing. This brought to mind a situation I found myself in about a year or so ago.

    I drove my wife's car to a local Domino's pizza store. I went in to get a pizza, and unbeknown to me another car exactly the same make and model as the car I was driving pulled in.

    When I went to go home, I stopped at what I thought was my car and as I went to put my key in, some guy ran out of the bar next to Domino's and yelled at me: "What the are you doing to my car!" I figured he was just some nut because I had just parked in the lot, and I went to put the key in the lock again, and he yelled at me: "Get the away from my car!!!"

    Then I noticed my wife's car two cars down and I backed away without engaging the guy, got in my car and drove off.

    The question is, in Texas, could that guy have shot and killed me for my mistake? Or maybe a more important question: Could that guy have thought he was justified in killing me when he thought I was stealing his car?
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson


  2. #2
    Member Array Tim the Teacher's Avatar
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    The answer is anyone could have shot you for your mistake but they would have gone to jail...CHL or not. No law in Texas that I know of would have been a defense to the prosecution. It sounds like a case of criminal trespass that takes place on public property. You have to prove a lot of things to justify shooting in this scenario....

    read this

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf

    page 59 Subchapter D PC 9.41 and 9.42

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cl00bie View Post
    I have been participating in another thread regarding the killing of someone for stealing. This brought to mind a situation I found myself in about a year or so ago.

    I drove my wife's car to a local Domino's pizza store. I went in to get a pizza, and unbeknown to me another car exactly the same make and model as the car I was driving pulled in.

    When I went to go home, I stopped at what I thought was my car and as I went to put my key in, some guy ran out of the bar next to Domino's and yelled at me: "What the are you doing to my car!" I figured he was just some nut because I had just parked in the lot, and I went to put the key in the lock again, and he yelled at me: "Get the away from my car!!!"

    Then I noticed my wife's car two cars down and I backed away without engaging the guy, got in my car and drove off.

    The question is, in Texas, could that guy have shot and killed me for my mistake? Or maybe a more important question: Could that guy have thought he was justified in killing me when he thought I was stealing his car?
    Well, anything is possible, but I would think for most people who legally carry, much depends on your demeanor and activity. I mean if you are appearing casual and actually inserting a key in a car that isn't yours, it might somewhat alarm the owner but it wouldn't normally advance to a drawn gun unless you got the car open and proceeded to get in and drive away. But in this case your key doesn't fit anyhow, so I suppose you aren't getting in. For the most part, it would be the same thing that actually happened: the owner yells at you to get away from his car.

    It is just a lot different from a thug-appearing jerk who is using a tire iron to smash out your window.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  4. #4
    Member Array HKtexas's Avatar
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    I believe it would have to be at night, on the car owners property, and I have been told that the person commiting the crime would have to be unknown to the victim. This was discussed in a criminal justice class of mine about 15yrs ago so my basis for this might and probably is outdated but that is what I understood to be the requirements back then and am certainly not saying that is still the case. With the Castle Doctrine things might have changed quite a bit.

    So I believe that "no, legally he could not have shot you".

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I can promise you that guy would have faced murder or manslaughter charges

    many folks have the attitude that just because Texas has the castle doctrine it is like the wild west here; nothing could be further from the truth. Yes, we do have some protections here from civil actions that came with the castle doctrine, but if you defend yourself with a gun, you have still committed a homicide (killed somebody). That homicide will be investigated just like any other and you will still have to go get an attorney and answer for what you have done; anyone who wants to run out the door and start shooting just because they think you are messing with their vehicle is being foolhardy and dangerous........
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    if you had actually got in and started to drive off he would have been in his rights to shoot you.
    if you shoot someone in Texas charges will either be filed or not filed.
    if it is a good defensive shoot they more than likely will not be filed,just investigated.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

  7. #7
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Hullo! That is my Car young fella! Should have cleared that up, smile on my face, during his apology, "Hey I am the one who is drinking!"

    Seems like the chest out and snarl appears to be the accepted method in dealing with this kind of situation now a days.

    It is so much easier to start an interaction of any nature pleasantly, turning nasty from that point on is simple to do.

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    I'm sure this is a more common situation than we think. Just a good example why it is important to be certain you know what is going --situational awareness includes recalling where you put your car.

    A million years ago my dad's car was towed for being illegally parked (a NYC alternate side of the street parking thing). Dad, on his way home from work, went to the same spot, where there happened to be an identical make and model car parked--O.K., because it was a different time of day. Dad thought it was his car, tried to put the key in. He tried, tried, looked puzzled, got worried, and then a gent who had watched the whole thing, including dad's frustration at not being able to get into his car, informed dad his car had been towed.

  9. #9
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Short answer, NO. Like others have said, nothing is impossible, but legally, unless you were in the person's driveway at night, there is not a shred of justification for a shoot in the circumstances you gave. Really, I haven't slipped on any of the blood that, according to critics, should have been running in the streets since shall issue and castle doctrine became the law here.

    Many years ago I was at a walk up ATM. I had driven a rental car that day because of some work on my car. I actually sat in someone elses car and was trying to put the key in the ignition. I realized before they did and they were on the way with a worried look when I got out and went to the next car over and drove off.

    In any situation everyone has to be aware that mistakes happen and that a soft answer turneth away wrath. If the guy that just walked by me at the pizza place tries to get in my car, I can politely tell him, "Hey buddy, that one isn't yours." and if it is me making the mistake I can politely apologize and make sure not to do any thing threatening. Even in Texas good manners don't include pulling a gun every time something unusual happens.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  10. #10
    Member Array ImChad's Avatar
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    I can't ever seeing using my sidearm to do anything other than protecting the life of my family or myself, and maybe even a few friends. Some of them would be on their own, lol. Anyhow, its such a supreme responsibility to be a CCP/ltch holder on so many levels that one choice doesn't just effect me, it effects everyone. The person I could have potentially killed, their family, their friends, and even the other people holding permits.

    Why on earth would I want to kill some deadbeat over something I can replace? Especially my jeep, which is insured for much more than its worth anyhow? If someone is in my home, in the middle of the night, or kicks in my door I'm not going to ask any questions and they'll not be answering any. But, if someone wants to run off with my car, I'm not going to even unholster my sidearm. I'll reach for my cell and call the police, but nothing else.

    I've read so much about people who have fired in defense situations and its supposedly a feeling you'll never shake. One that I hope I'll never have to experience. Not a feeling I'd like to have because some thug is stealing my car. THAT is the police departments job. My only reason to pack is to defend my family if their lives are in danger, nothing else.
    They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.

  11. #11
    Member Array ImChad's Avatar
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    Oh, and yes, I've gotten in the wrong car before too. My wife bought a new car and I was in the wrong row at the super market and got in someone elses car. I started to call the AAA place when my key wouldn't work the ignition when I seen a bumper sticker that I knew wasn't there before and realized it wasn't mine. getting shot for something like that would be a nice way for the anti-gunners to drive a point home, thats for sure.
    They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.

  12. #12
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    If he'd come out of a BAR in Texas and pulled a gun he'd of been in trouble, if he'd come out of the bar pulled a gun and shot someone he'd of been in a heap-of-trouble.
    I was shopping at Toy-R-us a couple of Christmases ago, carrying a load of presents I opened the rear gate of my SUV, put the presents in back, and got behind the wheel only to discover it wasn't my Jeep Grand Cherokee I was in. How many 2006 Jeep SUV that are white are on the road in Texas. It was identical to mine except the key. Saving grace was it was a far parking lot and not too many folks around, but I sure wouldn't have wanted to get shot over a silly mistake.
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
    Phil (NRA Member and Vietnam Vet)
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