January 6th, 2009 08:56 PM
There is no argument over a Constitutional Right.
Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.
January 6th, 2009 08:58 PM
Thanks, mulle46. You posted while I was composing, but your memory is correct. And I'll state my position again because I feel so strongly on this issue:
You need neither from her.
Originally Posted by Datsun40146
Originally Posted by archer51
As one who has gone through this myself, this is how I handled it. I got my permit. I began to carry even around the house, although it was concealed. When we first discussed it, I made it clear it was my decision as to how best to take care of my family, and I was going to be carrying from now on. I explained the world was evil, and I believed having a firearm available gave me the best opportunity to protect my family.
Originally Posted by Datsun40146
She didn't buy the "world was evil" talk, even though she watches the same news I watch and sees crime all around. She didn't want me carrying, but as I said, that was not her decision. For me, it was too important a decision to compromise on. It's like asking someone not to waste time cleaning a wound before dressing it because you are in a hurry. If you love someone, you are going to do what is good for them even if they don't want you to or understand why you are doing it.
I love my wife and daughter. I have determined being armed at home and away from home is the best way to help preserve their health and lives. Therefore I will do so every time I can regardless of her protestations, condescending looks, childish attempts to manipulate with anger or otherwise. None of that matters. Protecting my family trumps all.
Case closed. I carry. If she doesn't like it, she is free to consult a divorce attorney. But I will not be cowed by anyone into refusing to protect my family. Easiest decision I make every day of my life.
Fast forward to today: she knows I carry always. She knows I will continue to carry always. She knows nothing she says will change my mind. She knows if she wants to argue and try to sway me, it will be a waste of her time.
Over time she has accepted the fact that I carry. Periodically I point out horrible crimes that happen in good neighborhoods to good people. At times I reassure her I will do whatever it takes to protect her and our daughter.
One night after we had been asleep for several hours, my wife and I were awakened by a LOUD noise in the kitchen. (Note: our teenage daughter has never once gone into the kitchen in the middle of the night, so although I knew that was a possibility, I felt certain she had not made the noise.) The noise was so loud it jarred both of us out of a deep sleep. Although it was over by the time we awoke, we both knew it had been very loud and had unmistakedly came from inside our house. My wife was absolutely terrified. For all either of us knew, someone had just kicked in the dining room door. I rolled out of bed, grabbed my gun, and slipped down the hallway where I could get a good look at the rest of the house from the darkened hallway.
Turns out our microwave had decided to turn itself on, run for who knows how long, and then DING DING DING DING DING when it announced it was done with its fun. By the time we awoke, the dinging had stopped, so we were unable to identify the noise. Although I could see the interior of our house clearly from the hallway because I had moved the nightlight to the far side of the kitchen (thanks to a suggestion here on DC), I realized if some perp had been in our house and had turned that small bulb off, I would have been totally blind. My conversion to a gunlight was immediate and hard. So I bought one.
Then shortly thereafter, one night I was attaching the light to my gun in preparation for going to bed. She asked condescendingly, "What is that?" I said, "It's a light so I don't accidentally shoot our daughter in the middle of the night." She never said another word about it, and I could tell from her reaction that she was beginning to understand my commitment to safety and my commitment to the family's protection.
My point of that long story is that over time, she has seen me being careful with my weapons each and every time I handle them. She sees me bring the car gun in at night and exercise proper barrel control by never pointing it at anyone. I don't shove the fact that I always carry in her face: usually I carry concealed around the house because that's how I carried during the day, and I just leave them on. Even if I change carry modes at home, everything is still concealed. I don't hide the fact that I carry from her, but neither do I shove it in her face. When bedtime comes, I remove my guns and place them under the bed whether she is there at the moment or not. Carrying is a normal part of my everyday life, and I treat it as such.
She has grown to accept it and even at times appreciate it. Her appreciation depends upon her mood, so I don't allow that to dictate whether I carry or not. Her appreciation is just a little icing in life, but when it's not there, my conduct doesn't change.
Here is my opinion in a nutshell: it's your decision on whether to carry or not, not hers. If you allow her to manipulate you into living your life her way, then you have a long road ahead of you. Someday you will tire of being her puppet and being treated like a 2-year-old, and your marriage will suffer. It's best to deal with it now.
For me, this is not an area of compromise. Many areas are, but family safety isn't. My wife doesn't understand the real threat--I do. Therefore it is my obligation to my family to be armed whenever I am with them, no matter where we are, even at home, even without her consent. If I fail in the most basic trust of a father to protect his family as best as he can, then I am not worthy to be called "Baba" or "husband."
Good words, wise words, all of them. That pretty much sums it all up in just a few sentences.
Originally Posted by Anubis
One final thought: let's say you decide to compromise with her and only carry when you go out, or to the "bad" areas of town. Let's say at some point in the future you, her, and your children are at home enjoying an evening. When some guy or guys kicks in your front door and holds you and your family at gunpoint, then decides to do whatever they choose and you have no power to stop them, THAT is not the time to realize you shouldn't have compromised. Now is that time. If you truly believe you need to carry in order to keep you and your family safe, then follow your principles and do it, regardless of any and all objections.
Here are two reasons I carry at home always:
The Wichita Horror, the brutal murders by Jonathan and Reginald Carr -- The Crime Library - Crime Library on truTV.com
Ghastly Details In Conn. Home Invasion , Papers Report Mother, Two Daughters Raped Before Their Deaths - CBS News
What happened to these people will never happen to my family as long as I'm around, SO HELP ME GOD. I don't care who doesn't like me carrying... I don't care if all my friends and family think I'm nuts... I don't care if I'm called paranoid and a nutjob by every person on every gun forum... I'm preparing myself for the day of evil, and if it comes to my house when I'm home... I don't know if I will be successful at stopping the attack, but I'll damn sure be armed when it occurs. My decision. Case closed. Others can negotiate, compromise, try to win someone's permission. I'll spend my time living my life and preparing for other contingencies.
January 6th, 2009 09:06 PM
January 6th, 2009 09:29 PM
Grady, my friend, you never cease to amaze me. Well done.
Datsun - welcome to the Forum and congrats on your first handgun purchase!
To the OP, make your decision before the wedding. Discuss your decision openly. I've compromised in prior relationships and the emotional and financial (divorce) toll was a waste of both! It wasn't worth the compromise. My [current] wife wasn't anti-gun, she was just not exposed to firearms. We lived in central Florida and saw the escalating crime getting closer and closer to our apartment complex. That was catalyst #1. Some say discussing prior relationships isn't healthy in a new relationship. Perhaps it isn't - usually. I openly discussed the compromises I made (selling all my reloading equipment, my '70 series Colt 1911, my .357 I carried on duty, my shotgun and my hunting rifle - all at a steep loss). I also told her I was getting too old and stubborn to compromise my core identity. I am who I am and she either loves me or she doesn't. That was catalyst #2. She accepted me for who I am. Next, I took her shooting. That's all it took! She went through CCW class with me and is now the proud owner of the same model .357 I lost in the previous marriage (S&W 586, 4"). She's turned out to be my best friend, my hunting partner and my range buddy.
Early, candid discussions do have their merits! Good luck!
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
NRA Life Member
January 6th, 2009 09:31 PM
You covered Grady, nothing much for me to add......btw good job.
I would say to the OP, to take her .22 shooting, with a rifle and in the country somewhere. Introduce her gradually, lot's of time folks are initially afraid to what they don't know much about.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
January 6th, 2009 09:33 PM
May God bless you and give you the guidance you need at this time. Best you can do is to find the woman of your dreams, and who is with you until the end. The one you love most of all. Everything else is secondary. Back off on the gun thing. If you carry, this will be a good test for you, and I say keep it a secret. That's going to be a lot of work, but you'll be a better person for it. Concealing from a spouse would be the ultimate test in my book. And don't forget to bring up the daily news reports, or the links you'll find here about those sheep that have fallen to the wolves, and so forth. The biggest decision is yours. You really don't need to compromise your position. Just like working with a new pistol....you've got to give it your all before you can call it quits. And in the long run, there will be compromises one way or the other. Each of you have faults, and that's pretty much a standard. Overlook them, and I hope with all my heart she is willing to do the same. Life doesn't swing on carrying a pistol or you....make the most of it, because life is short. True love will overlook any faults one sees in the other. If you are in love, then nothing can take it's place. All differences put aside. This is how it should be.
January 6th, 2009 09:39 PM
Wow there are some amazing responses and life lessons to be had in the thread. Thank you everyone for you advice. I am going to have a long heart to heart talk with her so we can both lay out our points of view and go from there. By the way Grady I hate to single you out, but thank you.
January 6th, 2009 09:48 PM
Grady deserves to be singled out every now and then. I know he's one of the high points of this forum. Conservative until asked, but he'll spill it out like it should be.
Originally Posted by Datsun40146
January 6th, 2009 09:57 PM
I think there is some poor advice in this thread. I hope some of you were kidding when you said 'keep looking' and the like.
I was in your shoes just over 5 years ago. My wife has come a LONG ways since then, at first she did not want to even see my gun case much less the handgun inside. I know I don't have 40 years of experiance but I do agree that you have to be 100% honest with her at all times. You can't expect to "make" her agree with you. Women need time to understand and change their views. You can't change her and why would you want to. You need to help her understand where you come from with your decision to carry. Be gentle...she will come around, my wife did and now she believes in gun rights and will soon be carrying herself proudly with a Smith in her purse!
Pray for our nations leaders!
January 6th, 2009 10:02 PM
+1 on that my friend. Was not going to say anything, but I have been with my wife 20 years and honesty will win. She hated my CC at first and she is LE. She is not anti-gun, just was not hip on me and CC. We talked about it, took it slow, now I carry even at home in PJ's, like right now. Thanks nosights!
Originally Posted by nosights
January 6th, 2009 10:04 PM
Back when my ex and I were dating, the same subject came up. She was extremely anti-gun as well.....up until the day she went to the range with me and was hooked. She actually turned out to be an exceptional shot.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
January 6th, 2009 10:07 PM
Datsun, here's the deal:
She either accepts you for who you are with all your flaws and faults, just as you accept her with all of her flaws and faults, or you absolutely positively do not get married.....
If you do and these issues are unresolved, then you will have major problems down the road.....
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
January 6th, 2009 10:31 PM
Good post !!!
Originally Posted by edr9x23super
Our 37 years marriage is based on the idea that we are both adult and free; I've never told her what to do neither did she. We have had disagreement that we resolved but never a fight.
She is a very logical person and will change her position if presented with a logical explanation.
If I had to define a successful life together (married or not) in one word, it would be: RESPECT
Best of luck !
The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
The second rule: "Bring enough gun"
jfl (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)
January 6th, 2009 10:36 PM
I can't add much to the depth of advice already posted, except to say that I was facing a similar dilemma within the last few months with a woman I had come to like quite a bit. She's a self-proclaimed liberal and city-girl BTW. It turned out that around election time we discussed the more important issues such as 2A, abortion, leadership of the country, government control of social programs, etc. and found honestly we were completely opposite on every issue. This was a beautiful girl that I really liked, but the arguments over these issues were more than I could take. Could they be worked out with time? Possibly, but if not I couldn't take 30-40 years and parenthood with these divisions. We are still friends at this time but are no longer in a serious relationship... and yes, I tried inviting her to go shooting.
Is your woman in the same boat, absolutely not! I'm just saying you should run the gauntlet at least once with some (possibly controversial) issues that could cause division between a city-girl and country-boy. If you love her and can get a feeling on her emotions, see if she tightens up or remains willing to be at least open to discussion. Like everyone has said, love and patience can change anything... but only if both parties are willing to work at it.
Last comment and I'm done.
STRATEGY #1 My Mom was just about the most anti-gun and anti-motorcycle woman I know about 10 years ago. (When I was 10 she made my dad destroy his 12G pump so he wouldn't be tempted to teach me.) My father had always had bikes (and guns) before he was married, and about the time I turned 18 he wanted to get me on a bike since all my friends had them. We decided to go the sneaky way and just buy a used Honda 500 and park it in the garage. The whole forgiveness easier than permission tactic. This totally backfired, she was hurt, angry, felt lied to, and refused to let anyone ride it for 4 months of beautiful spring/summer weather. Eventually she let me take my cycle endorsement test on it and start riding, but it took another year before she forgave my dad and let him start shopping. After another year she decided she'd "Rather die with her man than have him out there alone." She's been riding with him for 7 years now, loves riding and usually is the one grabbing her leathers and saying "Come on honey, it's a beautiful day lets RIDE!"
STRATEGY #2 About 4 years ago my dad wanted to start shooting again for fun and decided to bring it up to her. He started early and let her know this was important to him and that he would be very careful and take every safety precaution. He was very tactful and as previously recommended:
This worked awesome as my Dad set up metal spinning targets, clay pigeons on little wooden rack that he built, 2 liter bottles filled with water, etc. Take 'er out on the 80 acres and go slow with the .22 scoped rifle. This worked like a charm and slowly she began to come around. After a year went by she looked forward to shooting and wanted to go out to the woods or the range. He's since purchased a rifle, shotgun, and pistol all with her blessing.
Originally Posted by C9H13NO3
What's my point? You shouldn't ever need forgiveness for something you love and something she can't stand. This is the wrong way to look at it in my opinion and will only lead to hurt and more walls around her in this area. "He doesn't respect or care about me in this area and this proves it!" So, in my opinion have a good talk with her, see if she's open to change (even a little), and then evaluate this part of your life and its importance for the next 40+ years. Marriage without a plan for success is bound to fail.
Off my soapbox now, thanks for listening!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down & lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, & may posterity forget you were countrymen.
January 6th, 2009 10:36 PM
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