January 7th, 2009 09:59 AM
Just like life, on this thread you will have to "chew the meat and spit the bones." I have been married to a wonderful woman for 13 1/2 years who was brought up in a home where guns were like poisonous snakes: if you get too close to one it may bight you. :)
Fast forward to last Friday, when she bought herself a Bersa Thunder .380 for CC once she gets her permit next month. Major change, huh? :) Same gal who never wanted to have kids (professional ballerina) who now homeschools our 4 tricycle motors.
What made the change? Respect, communication, understanding, forgiveness and patience. That's the same formula for a successful marriage my friend! Give her time and love her. (off-topic suggestion: read "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman and "Love and Respect" by Emerson Eggerichs and put the suggestions to use) Talk with her about your feelings and hers. This might be a "hill she is willing to die on," and at this stage in your relationship you might not be willing to give up that hill. That is good information to have. On the other hand she may eventually give up the fight if you respect her opinion.
I found that as my wife realized that I was serious about protecting her and our family without being a nut job she became appreciative of my efforts. Life and successful marriages are about more than CCing, so I would caution you about making this a litmus test.
The best to you and your gf!
January 7th, 2009 10:06 AM
If its something you feel stronly about then stick to your guns (hahaha). Dont cave in now or it will only get worse. My wife was not happy about the gun thing in the begining, now she asks if I have it because she wants to go someplace she does not feel safe.
January 7th, 2009 10:10 AM
JMHO, but my advice is: Do not marry her!
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
January 7th, 2009 10:14 AM
I was in the same postition as you. i had many debates with my fiance about why i want to own/carry a firearm. most didnt end the way i would like. we are the same as you, she is the conservative type, me...the woodsy....not so conservative but we are very much perfect for eachother even though we disagree on many many things. breaking up over it is just stupid, i cant believe people even say that lol. i did get mine LTC, and do carry and it started out with her whining about it, now im down to a roll of the eyes, but soon i will get her to carry, it will just take some patience :)
work it out, and give her good reasoning. mine hates it when i say "luck favors the prepared" so i say it whenever she gives me any crap :)
i also ask her why she wears her seatbelt....when she asks why i carry...that ends that convo very quickly
January 7th, 2009 10:28 AM
It's about security of the family. CC'ing is only one tool toward that end, sure. Litmus <> only test. Yet, there are a few core decision points that can mean all the difference: love of family/children; honesty; fiduciary responsibility; willingness to do whatever it takes to maintain the family's well-being as healthy, happy and whole. Security is a big part of that. Refusal to allow or consider basic security steps violates a couple of the bedrock principles that create a strong foundation for a lasting relationship. Breach more than one of those, and there had best be exceptional reasons why that's appropriate. Bare fear and ignorance doesn't cut it. Perhaps it can be surmounted. Perhaps not.
Originally Posted by MinistrMalic
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 7th, 2009 11:06 AM
When I met mine, I told her two things definately come along with me if she wanted anything at all to do with me. Dogs and guns.
"There is no such thing as too much ammo. Unless you're swimming!"
January 7th, 2009 11:24 AM
Don't give up on her yet. It may just be ignorance -- meaning lack of knowledge, not stupidity. But don't marry her until you've had a heart-to-heart, and gotten an answer you can live with. It's too important and too emotion-laden to fight over for years or decades.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
January 7th, 2009 11:41 AM
The very best pro gun argument I have ever read was recently posted on this Forum. It was an article I believe entitled "Gun is Civilization." It appeals to both reason and emotion.
I plan to make copies and carry a few around with me. Any time i get into a discussion/debate with a pro gun control person, I plan to simply hand them the article and say"read this, end of discussion, end of debate."
You might try asking her to read it, and then see what her response is.
"It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."
J. R. R. Tolkien
January 7th, 2009 12:26 PM
I've been married now for 5 years. My wife and I were gun-ignorant (not anti, not pro, just didn't think about em) but now we both have ccw licenses, and our self-defensive rights are a big conversation item at our household... All I have to say is...
COMMUNICATION #1 & RESPECT #2. Without communication, 100% honest open-lines of communication, there will be friction. When you get married, it is truly like the bible says: you become one flesh. How can you stand if half of the body is keeping something from the other? Without respect, there can be no true honest communication. PUT YOUR GUARD DOWN AND OPEN UP.
Marriage is best when it is 60%-40%, EACH. You give 60% and take 40%, and your spouse gives 60% and takes 40%. You both end up with 100% (of what, I haven't figured out yet...!). This is very hard, to give more to your wife than you keep for yourself, but to know that she's doing the same for you keeps the marriage happy. Striving to give more than you take (sacrificing of yourself) ON BOTH SIDES is key. If one side starts to lagg, don't argue about it, don't stop giving of yourself out of spite (if she won't then I won't), just refer to the COMMUNICATION part. Let them know, you feel like you're being left out...
Apply this to the current situation as your own intuition wishes. I'm young at marriage, but have contemplated a lot of teachings from the bible on successful marriages, and I know my marriage is a happy one because of an open line of honest communication, respect, and sacrifice on both sides.
I'm not saying you should sacrifice your beliefs on guns for her. I would advise to try and use the open line of communication with her to CAREFULLY show her where she is in error about her fear of guns. One thing that's stuck with me I heard on the radio, however, is that logic can never defeat emotion. Emotion is the willful ignoring of logic, and logic is the willful ignoring of emotion. The problem with anti-gun people is that their opinions on why guns are evil are all based on emotions. Sure, we can get emotional when we're defending gun rights, but our facts and statistics are based on LOGIC. For example, their assumption that if you get mugged you're going to have your gun taken from you and used on you, is blown out of proportion (only 2% of incidents) and that includes police officers and all sorts of 'junk' stats.
I would download GUN FACTS from buckeye firearms .com, read through it, get familiar with where the different sections are, then go and have a good honest heart to heart. Don't be afraid to call her out on an emotionally based fear, but do it GENTLY and don't burn any bridges! After you're finished talking, if you do it right, you should have softly removed some walls between her and accepting that PEOPLE, not GUNS are bad... You might even be able to remove some of her guard without her noticing it. Really butter her up towards the end of the conversation, then ask her if she'd be interested in making her own decision based on her own experiences, and get her behind a .22 hitting some fun targets (paper is boring sometimes).
I wish you the best, whichever way you have to go to get it.
January 7th, 2009 12:56 PM
I feel sorry for you.
While my wife doesn't share my fervor for noisy metal and wood masterpieces, she does have a NH CWP and caries semi-regularly.
If she is truly anti-, then you have a real problem. Probably more than one, speaking to the general mindset of anti-s. If she is just opposed, then you can work with it. Buy her a BB gun and tell her you want her to go target shooting or something. Soon enough, my wife wanted her own. Now between hershoe list and her gun list, I am broke.
Happy wife, happy life. If its not going to work, at least now you know.
January 7th, 2009 01:36 PM
WOW... GREAT THREAD!!!
To the OP... I can feel your pain, DIRECTLY... and sadly for me the discussion of gun ownership never came up while we were dating mainly because I can not bring weapons to where I work, so I had not made it a priority to get my Concealed Weapons Permit...
After we got married I got back in touch with a highschool friend of mine who is an avid gun collector, who also loves his range time.
I knew he liked guns and I mentioned that I was going to get my CWP, he was ecstatic... My wife, MUCH less so... she was almost crying the first time I went to the range with him...
Since then, she has decided that she knows there is no changing my mind, and is not entirely happy about the idea of a gun being in the house we bought, especially since with luck children are in the near future...
HOWEVER, she respects my opinion, and has even made the concession to goto the gun range with me to learn to shoot, so that in the event she is forced to use the weapon she CAN...
She didnt like it, and she did it with MUCH intrepidation, but she shot the gun herself, and did so WELL... I was happy as a clam... at the end a few people with .45's were shooting and she couldnt take it anymore, so we left...
I guess my point in telling you all this is to realize that a relationship is about understanding and comprimise... HOWEVER, NOT to a fault!
Your personal safety, or that of your g/f and eventual wife (if it keeps heading that way) should NOT be comprimised...
Women although most of them won't admit it, want a man who will be firm and asert himself, without telling her what to do.
She made her move... how will you make yours?
Be firm, be fair, but be realistic, not all people are sheepdogs...
January 7th, 2009 01:38 PM
I would make it clear NOW!!!!!
That this is a passion/hobbie as well as a necessity. Otherwise there will come a time where you will not make anymore consessions then it may have an impact on the marriage.
"When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."
--Thomas Jefferson --
January 7th, 2009 01:46 PM
Have you asked her to elaborate on her reasons for her opposition? Is this a purely emotional reaction to movie stuff, or is this a reasoned conclusion?
My approach to such things is this: it's my job, my duty, to protect myself, my wife, and my kids. It's not just my duty to "us", but to my fellow citizens - we decline to require the state or its police to protect us, and so they have no duty to do so. It is entirely our job to protect ourselves, to avoid tyranny, to ensure freedom, and to impose as little cost as possible on our fellows. So the question is, does the woman wish for you to be able to protect her, or does she want the independence to protect and be responsible for herself? I told my wife that she's got a chance if I've got a gun - and otherwise, she's at the mercy of anyone who wants to do whatever. And that's a fact. Criminals are, by definition, not "law abiding citizens" - they operate according to their own whims and do what they feel like doing. You can stop them, or not, your choice, but the state and its police have only the duty of detecting the crime after it's been committed.
Here's my second line of attack: If she doesn't want you to have guns, does she want you to get rid of your smoke detectors and fire extinguishers too? You don't have those things because you want your house to burn, but we all know that houses do burn. Does she want you to be able to have a chance to keep yours from burning down, or is that too scary, too?
As I see it, the big problem such people have with guns is not that the gun is present, but that the gun represents the contingency of violence. And they wish that there were no violence. But that wish will not protect.
Like Lord Baden-Powell said, "Be prepared". And, by the way, you need for her to be mentally and emotionally prepared with you, because if danger does materialize, you need for her to be calm and reliable in a pinch. You know all those movies that depend on a silly woman doing something stupid, in order to advance the plot? Well, she's either going to be a liability or a strength. And if the former, you're a goner.
I have read the comments about finding a better, more suitable prospect for marriage, and those which thought such a comment was inappropriate. Love is more than sexual attraction and fond feelings. And marriage is more than love. You need someone you can depend on to protect your kids when you're not around, as well as to be a help to you in a pinch. You need someone who is sensible and reliable, and with whom you can bond in trust and respect. My father told me to look carefully at my prospective spouse's parents, and especially at her mother. That was the surest indicator of what I was getting into. He was right. Don't be afraid to change your mind. Pray about it and do what the Holy Spirit communicates to you.
Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com
Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.
January 7th, 2009 01:47 PM
Try to get her to the range and start her out with something mild like a .22. Do NOT get silhouettes for targets. Get some bulls eyes or something a little less offensive. She might come around. Otherwise, if she can't come to the realization that this is a big, bad world we live in then you might be better served moving on.
You'll rock, with a 357 Glock
January 7th, 2009 02:05 PM
Is your mother still around? How does she feel about packing? If it no problem for your Mom, then ask herto have a talk with your GF.
Otherwise, tell the GF that you will not be put in a position to make a choice between her and the piece of steel and wood you have chosen to protect the ones you love. Also you might wnt to throw in--"Honey as much as I love you, I also love myself. I would lay my life on the line for you and if I do I would want every chance to survive an attack and spend a lot of years with you.
---Make her justify you NOT carrying---! If that doesnt work pack your bags ole buddy and wait for the next bus.
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