Educate me- Legal or otherwise

This is a discussion on Educate me- Legal or otherwise within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, I was reading today how a person was found guilty of Excessive Force because of a technique used to defend his home. I did ...

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Thread: Educate me- Legal or otherwise

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    New Member Array rdbradish's Avatar
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    Educate me- Legal or otherwise

    Ok, I was reading today how a person was found guilty of Excessive Force because of a technique used to defend his home. I did not hear all the details and cannot even speculate, but it begs the question...

    My practice is as follows:
    My first target has 6- 4 inch forms, circles, square and Triangles. I hit them in some order and repeat, changing mags as I go, at 3, 5 and 7 yards.
    My second target is a silhouette and I practice Point and shoot, sometimes called Quick kill, 2 body 1 head, also at 3, 5 and 7 yards.

    So, here is where my question comes in. Since I am practicing techniques specifically aimed, not at creating an ability to escape, but rather developing muscle memory for the specific function of taking a life (and, in fact the technique is named in such a way to indicate the same), am I placing myself at risk for being charged with excessive force, should I need to defend myself or family??

    This may seem menial, and if so, I apologize, but I thought it a curious situation.

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    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Well, in Florida we can use deadly force to protect for SD, not wounding force. If you pull it and are justified to shoot, shoot to kill by using deadly force.
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    New Member Array rdbradish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    Well, in Florida we can use deadly force to protect for SD, not wounding force. If you pull it and are justified to shoot, shoot to kill by using deadly force.
    A follow up, In North Carolina, where I live, using a weapon on someone in retreat is considered illegal, so things can get iffy real quick. If shot 3 X's, the third shot better darn well not be to the back!!

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    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    I was taught at my academy(I am a LEO in NJ) that any use of a firearm would be considered lethal force so I don't think it would matter how you train, but that is OMO. YMMV. And I usually hear the 2 to the body, 1 to the head, referred to as a Mozambique drill, not quick kill.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

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    How you practice should have no bearing on if a shooting is good or bad. Remember you are practicing defensive shooting, not offensive shooting.

    If shot 3 X's, the third shot better darn well not be to the back!!
    Hopefully no shot is in the back, but when a person is shot he and you have no control on how his body will react. He may fall forward, backward or spin. As long as there is no sign he was trying to retreat you should be good.

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Why would you admit that you train to kill? You are just target shooting and any lawyer worth anything would never let you say anything to the contrary.
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    TOF
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    You practice stopping an attack and you shoot to stop an attack. Nothing more nothing less.

    The Mozambique Drill is a well known method of stopping an attack.
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    And how do you know it is excessive force until it is all over? Do you escalate gradually until the threat stops (may be too late by then) or do you overwhelm to immediately stop the threat on your life?

    As for the Mozambique drill, well, lucky shooting I guess.
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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    There is no need to discuss your training practices with the police or prosecutors. Remember, if you ever get involved in a deadly force situation, keep your mouth shut. Find a lawyer and zip it.

    (keep it up, it sounds like good training to me!)

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    You shoot to stop the threat on your life. Period.
    If the BG dies, so be it.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Just don't get anyone on the jury that's a member of the Brady Bunch who thinks guns are only acceptable for "sports shooting".

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    New Member Array rdbradish's Avatar
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    Interesting replies.

    To clarify, "Point and Shoot" is sometimes referred to as "Quick Kill".

    2 body, 1 head is, in fact, referred to as the "Mozambique Drill"

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    Ex Member Array 1John5vs7's Avatar
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    "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Just don't get anyone on the jury that's a member of the Brady Bunch who thinks guns are only acceptable for "sports shooting".
    Part of not being arrested for something as ridiculous as defending your home against intrusion with lethal force is knowing your rights. When the Constitution says you have a right to trial by a jury OF YOUR PEERS, it means exactly what it says. You have a right to select people who know you and know the quality and caliber of person you are.

    So unless you only have friends from Brady, why would this even be an issue? And since your peers will be judging you in cases at law, make sure they are all informed of their rights as jurors. The best way to do this is to contact the local division of the Constitution Party in your area and ask them for a pocket Constitution with the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and "Jury Rights". They're usually free or cost very little money and the CP is happy to distribute them because their entire political platform is structured around the Constitution and God.

    I don't mean to push one party or religion in this, I'm just saying they're a great resource to get a handy and concise statement of the rights of jurors and the rights of persons being tried. Why would you go to court not knowing your rights!? You'd be as effective as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdbradish View Post
    Ok, I was reading today how a person was found guilty of Excessive Force because of a technique used to defend his home. I did not hear all the details and cannot even speculate, but it begs the question...

    My practice is as follows:
    My first target has 6- 4 inch forms, circles, square and Triangles. I hit them in some order and repeat, changing mags as I go, at 3, 5 and 7 yards.
    My second target is a silhouette and I practice Point and shoot, sometimes called Quick kill, 2 body 1 head, also at 3, 5 and 7 yards.

    So, here is where my question comes in. Since I am practicing techniques specifically aimed, not at creating an ability to escape, but rather developing muscle memory for the specific function of taking a life (and, in fact the technique is named in such a way to indicate the same), am I placing myself at risk for being charged with excessive force, should I need to defend myself or family??

    This may seem menial, and if so, I apologize, but I thought it a curious situation.
    You are hurting yourself by saying what I put in bold type. You shoot to stop the threat not necessarily to kill. That statement is contra to everything in CCW & SD training & would get you killed in court.

    Most states and especially those w/Castle Doctrine or "Make My Day" laws give you immunity from prosecution & civil suit for any force, including lethal force, you use to get the uninvited person's threat neutralized provided it's not excessive.

    I can see situations where an uninvited person in your home would need no force or only the minimum force to get them to leave.

    You need to attend a good SD course and familiarize yourself with your states laws regarding this.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    Member Array spooter66's Avatar
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    You practice so you can get those three shots off before they have a chance to turn and retreat.
    "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." - Sir Winston Churchill


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