Wow what a bad comment

This is a discussion on Wow what a bad comment within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by budokaitd Beware, there are a lot of mystical, magical, cream puff martial artists out there who make some stupid claims. Get used ...

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Thread: Wow what a bad comment

  1. #16
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budokaitd View Post
    Beware, there are a lot of mystical, magical, cream puff martial artists out there who make some stupid claims. Get used to it. If you are even remotely interested in extreme close quarters training, Kelly McCann (also gone by Jim Grover) is a good place to start. NO BS!!!
    I second that!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    It seems we're criticizing without actually listening to the guy!

    ...wWorth mentioning that he stresses redirecting the weapon several times FIRST!

    RCAT

    Redirect
    Control
    Attack
    Takeaway

    I think this guy does OK. I like the Nike Defense, too. I'm not as critical of this video as some others have been, and find that his tutelage is fairly textbook and congruent with what I've been instructed to do. There is far more useful info here that ya'll are giving him credit for, IMHO.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  4. #18
    Member Array hybrid's Avatar
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    ninja quarters combat

    people love NQC, like those self defence classes, that they used to teach women to kick a non moving assailant in the privates.

    every time I see a tacticool self defence instructor it reminds me of this:
    YouTube - Jim Carrey Karate
    NO 3rd party disputes

    The power of imagination is the key to life.

    It helps you think ahead, consider the possibilities,and prepare you for the future.
    If you lack that ability, you're no different from livestock trapped behind a fence.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array AVIVIII's Avatar
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    Get a blue gun and a friend and try some of this stuff.

    On a side note, who wants to volunteer to try and take my .357 out of battery?

  6. #20
    Member Array budokaitd's Avatar
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    I can't open the video here at work (gov't facility), so I don't know what the guys is doing or said. I hope I didn't come across the wrong way or offend anyone. I wasn't calling this guy or martial artists -cream puffs, I just said there are a lot of them out there. -Sorry
    Join the NRA and Gun Owners of America.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    With a normal revolver it would be a lot more effective to put your hand over the hammer...that is, unless it has a shrouded hammer. I guess that is too complicated if you are in the middle of a fight.
    Actually, have you ever gripped the cylinder and frame of a revolver and tried to pull the trigger (double action only! )? It's a very effective technique. You get to target most of the exposed weapon, and unless they get your grip loosened, they're not going to get it to fire.

    But this video uses an auto. I suspect the guy just neglected to mention pressure would need to take the slide slightly out of battery to prevent it from firing (which is key). And the fact that he left that out of a video he's presenting to the world says he's being sloppy. I have zero doubt he is aware of how the weapon functions.

    Yes, there is merit to some of the technique. There is MORE merit to some of the posts here. Best done live with an experienced instructor or partner.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  8. #22
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Rather than worrying about getting it out of battery, I prefer the line-training the Marine Corps teaches...

    Grab and redirect weapon upward, torque weapon upward and back toward assailant until gun pops out of his hands (or breaks wrists), yank down and back towards you so weapon pops out of attackers hands (and can bring trigger finger with it) step back with weapon and use it on attacker.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Comments and technique set aside, its extremely irresponsible to show or attempt to teach disarming in a video. I wouldn't listen to anything this quack has to say.
    Agreed. I'm familiar with this technique and it can work. But it involves pivoting of the hand using the thumb as a joint. It will take the slide out of battery, but there's no way to show this with a yellow gun, and especially not on a video. And it's not the preferred technique of any of the instructors I've trained under.

    H2H is best learned the old fashioned way... in person.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    I can almost instantly remove the slide off an M9 pointing at me. Practiced it a bunch out of boredom. Makes for a good show, but I'd never try that in a defense situation. I think the redirect and torque is the best way to go...followed or accompanied by a swift knee to the crotch or a shot from your own weapon.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Comments and technique set aside, its extremely irresponsible to show or attempt to teach disarming in a video. I wouldn't listen to anything this quack has to say.
    This comment bears questions...what do you take away from this forum in print, Six? Daring to learn anyone from else here might fall under the guise of 'listening to a quack'...so why read here? When is it ok learn from something? Do you have special knowledge about the man you're calling a quack, or are you just playing the cynic?

    I'm guessing ANY self defense, armorer/gunsmith, home improvement, tax assitance or excercise video is irresponsible by certain criteria. And I believe the viewer has to be smart enough to employ the information in a useful fashion, but a flatline condemnation of this just doesn't seem fair. I've learned plenty from Clint Smith's videos...

    Now...where is that root canal clip I downloaded? I've got a major toothache...



    PS: I'm hoping you'll laugh at this post, but I'm guessing you'll just get pissed off and slam me.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironclad View Post
    Well...I've studied/practiced martial arts, for a long time, and there's nothing creampuff about it!? Now...torquing the gun out of his hand is correct; don't stand still, move into his body mass; and most important is this...dynamic of how a hand holds a gun! If he is right-handed, you want to move/torque his gun from his right side towards his left side... you have much better chance of loosing it from his grip... than from his left to his right. Don't believe me? Get your own gun right now, and try it. See??...there is a difference, isn't there!?
    I was taught exactly the say way.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    I can almost instantly remove the slide off an M9 pointing at me. Practiced it a bunch out of boredom. Makes for a good show, but I'd never try that in a defense situation. I think the redirect and torque is the best way to go...followed or accompanied by a swift knee to the crotch or a shot from your own weapon.
    I know a Walgreen store clerk that now works at a Gander Mountain store that did that very move with a punk trying to rob him. It was caught on the store video. The Aurora PD had a good laugh about that one. Come to find out the punk hadn't even loaded the M9. It was the same Beretta model 92 as the M9.

    I personaly did not see the video nor can I colaborate the story except for his demo that he knows how to do it (in store demo).

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I would imagine that he just failed to articulate the fact that the gun will not fire if it is out of battery. He could have also meant that if you're grabbing the slide and the gun is fired, it won't fire again since your grip will prevent the slide from cycling (and no, it probably won't burn you or cut your hand, I've tried it...and if it does, who cares, it beats getting shot).
    Either way, he just didn't articulate it very well.

    If you're looking for some good DVD's, take a look at Kelly McCann/Jim Grover's Combatives series...excellent material, including some good gun disarms. Here's a clip from the series on you-tube...they have a lot of other clips of his stuff as well.
    YouTube - Jim Grover's Combatives Series
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    I've done it, it works.

    Well, the gun I did this with was blue. CCW instructor desided to show me a few things after class. Hope never to have to do this for real. In my world, last ditch move. Would not matter type of pistol, just grab and move it out of the way. Hopefully pull my own firearm or a knife and finish off situation. Figure good odds serious hand injury, but still alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by KenpoTex View Post
    ...Either way, he just didn't articulate it very well...
    +1

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Interesting post but I think I have different persective. I am the guy with the gun. My point is how to keep a 3rd degree black belt from incapacitating my weapon. I have a brother who is a San Dan (third degree black belt) in Shinryu Karate and a grandson who is a ShoDan in same. I know how many hours of daily drills it takes them to practice these maneuvers to get anywhere near effective. I don't have that kind of time and wouldn't attempt it. I notice that people who say you have to shoot 100+ rounds a day from your EDC to be safe and effective turn around and say you whould use one of these complicated martial arts moves to a person who will never see the inside of a dojo!

    A couple of points in my case only:

    • I don't expect to run up against a martial arts qualified hoodlum in my area. (we don't even have any tough street fighter dojos in area.)
    • BG is going to be using gun or knife (not MA) or at least I hope so, because otherwise I am going to be in a heap of trouble if I shoot him (TN SD Laws).
    • I practice firing from close to body position "hip style" in my daily drills.
    • I carry J-Frames (not much for somebody else to grab a hold of.


    My drill? Push the gun (deflect?) out of the way , while drawing and firing my own gun into BGs belly. (it's why they call a J-Frame a "belly gun.") It is fairly easy to do this from a pocket holster BTW, you don't really need to draw weapon out of pocket (EDC S&W 64Xs, hammerless)


    I am not discounting the use of MA in self defense, but it's use is not of a whole lot of value to those of us who don't or can't practice it religiously. I have a deep respect for Martial Artists. Having a couple in the family though and 30+ years active duty in the Corps has taught me that it is not a casually acquired skill set.

    I'm almost 66 years old and my reaction times suck. I need a simple and quick drill. Lack of ability to throw guys around anymore is one of the reasons I CCW and practice almost daily.

    This is a gun forum about Carry Guns and I need gun drills.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

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