Your ideal CCW mandate?

This is a discussion on Your ideal CCW mandate? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First off, we all I think feel that 2A in and of itself should be enough. That said - views vary as to firearms access ...

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Thread: Your ideal CCW mandate?

  1. #1
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    Your ideal CCW mandate?

    First off, we all I think feel that 2A in and of itself should be enough. That said - views vary as to firearms access by convicted felons, mentally unstable etc (all even themselves contentious subjects).

    Leaving those issues aside but taking into account the almost huge variance, state by state on carry regulations, what would you choose as your ideal (or just acceptable) situation?

    I am all but OK with my PA set-up, leaving aside the ''permissions'' aspect, though I would like to see folks encouraged more to take some training, for their own safety as well as others. I also would wish for restrictions on places of carry banishment to be reduced or lifted, even tho here they are quite minor.

    I see some states where training and waiting periods seem absurd in their requirements. I see too of course states not yet taking up shall issue (I shed tears almost for the absurdity of the WI situation). I am still more than sympathetic too re MD, KS, IL etc - better also include DC, NYC, Chicago - so many ''exceptions".

    If we accept that ''permissions'' are required - a ''bite the bullet'' modern requirement - then what would you accept as your ideal.?
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I present to you every single gun law that will be on the books when I am king.

    You may not own and by default carry a gun if:

    (1) You are serving a prison sentence or parole,
    (2) You are a fugitive from justice;
    (3) You are an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
    (4) You are crazy;
    (5) You are not a United States Citizen;
    (6) You have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
    (7) You are subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
    (8) You are a minor and you don't have your parent or guardian's permission

    Maybe a couple more. Basically other than that we'll worry about the best way to punish and catch criminals.

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I present to you every single gun law that will be on the books when I am king.

    You may not own and by default carry a gun if:

    (1) You are serving a prison sentence or parole,
    (2) You are a fugitive from justice;
    (3) You are an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
    (4) You are crazy;
    (5) You are not a United States Citizen;
    (6) You have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
    (7) You are subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
    (8) You are a minor and you don't have your parent or guardian's permission

    Maybe a couple more. Basically other than that we'll worry about the best way to punish and catch criminals.

    Thats about what i think to should not need to have a CCW permit as far as im concered

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    Member Array Brian45's Avatar
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    I think His Highness King Euclidean has it covered.
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    Well yeah, Euc has much covered well - but I am including thoughts re your delays, costs etc - what would you choose, instead of what you have?

    What would be comfortably acceptable.?
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I present to you every single gun law that will be on the books when I am king.

    You may not own and by default carry a gun if:

    (5) You are not a United States Citizen;

    Wait one minute here. I must protest this particular item. There are plenty legal inmigrants who are not only law abiding but believe in the Second Amendment and fight to defend it. To deny them ownership is criminal, injust and unfair.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    Wait one minute here. I must protest this particular item. There are plenty legal inmigrants who are not only law abiding but believe in the Second Amendment and fight to defend it. To deny them ownership is criminal, injust and unfair.
    Wrong.
    If they like it here so much, they can become a US citizen and put the nationalist crap away.

    If they want to abide by our rules...thats fine. Do it right and become a citizen. Then..and only then ,they can enjoy the freedom that sets this country apart form all others...

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    While CCW should be avalible for every law abiding citizen,I feel some training should be required. After all, if I am to trust others around myself and especially around my kids, I want the CCW holders to be competent and safe.

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    It takes at least five years to become a nationalized U.S. citizen and if I recall correctly the Bill of Rights expressly includes (or at least, applies to) all permanent residents of the United States, not just citizens.

    Surely you wouldn't want people who aspire to become valuable members of America's society to live without their right to self-defence. If so, what other rights can they be denied?

    To give those you would deny this basic human right a face, please keep in mind that our Chris is a legal immigrant, unless he completed his naturalization since I joined this forum. Did you, Chris?

    The other thing I disagree with is the prohibition of carrying when under a restraining order. Those are used way too often as a legal maneuver in a divorce to get custody of the children and so on.

    What I like is that, if I interpret your list correctly, your right to keep and bear arms is restored after you have served your jail and/or parole time.
    "So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause."
    - Senator Padmé Amidala, "Revenge of the Sith"

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    Senior Member Array Roadrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibex
    The other thing I disagree with is the prohibition of carrying when under a restraining order. Those are used way too often as a legal maneuver in a divorce to get custody of the children and so on.
    I agree. This restriction is good IF the requirements to obtain one of these restraining orders are made more stringent.
    - Kurt
    “Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
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    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    I must object to number 7; those things are too easy to get without a requirement to prove anything beyond "I'm afraid of him". That law already exists and we've seen the abuses.

    I would opt for no restrictions except a serious training requirement. Hunting licenses, DD214s, old NRA bullseye classification cards don't qualify as proof of training. Every activity of man has a body of knowledge associated with it. Unfortunately, because we've had quite a number of generations brought up under various levels of gun control, this body of knowledge is no longer "common knowledge". It is held by the police and groups like us. A course would ensure that people had at least received the basics.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    My thinking on not being a US citizen is I don't want illegal immigrants or anyone who has renounced their citizenship to be considered. Legal immigrants could certainly be added into the fold.

    Restraining orders - sorry I got personal experience with this one. That's actually a good idea. What is necessary is a bit of legal reform to make them actually work like they're supposed to. We can't write laws that work under the supposition of incompetence, prejudice, or perhaps in this case misandry because we know all judges pass out restraining orders against men freely. It would be like writing a law that says the police can't pull over a black male because we all know the police discriminate against them.

    Re: the training angle.

    While we're at it, let's require an Associate's or better degree in English and History for a person to excercise the part of the first amendment that allows freedom of speech. If they want freedom of religion they're going to have to go to seminary for two years. If you don't want to have to quarter soldiers you're going to have to pass a special state mandated multiple choice test. If you would like your fourth amendment rights, we're going to pose you some hypothetical legal cases and see if you can interpret your rights in that situation correctly... I hope someone sees the problem by now.

    Learning how to do something well is always a good idea, but who sets the standard?

    My buddy the Marine when I saw him last didn't know how to clear a semiautomatic pistol, and the military is widely considered to be the paragon of firearms proficiency by the general public.

    Does anyone remember that post some time ago about the jewelry store owner who fended off five armed robbery attempts? I don't remember him ever going to Gunsite and I wouldn't call him incompetent.

    I will always try to improve myself, but it is arrogant and wrong to demand it of others. I'm not you, I don't understand your situation, I haven't seen what you've seen, and vice versa. I'm not going to sit around drafting piles of restrictions that presuppose everyone else but me is going to do something stupid. Society can't work that way unless we build in tyranny of government.

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    I can live with the changes. Didn't mean to cause a raucus !
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    Member Array nitrogen's Avatar
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    Down here in Texas, it can take up to 60 days or longer to get your CHL.
    The State actually likes to sit on them longer if they can find an excuse.

    I'd like to see the State issue a CHL if you can pass a NCIS check, and pass your training requirement. Go down to DPS, show them your TR100 (form stating you passed your range qualification and written test) and get photographed and whatnot, and walk out with your CHL.

    If it's good enough to buy a gun, it's good enough to carry one.

    I doubt I'll see that within my lifetime, though.
    יזכר לא עד פעם
    Yizkor. Lo Od Pa'am.
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  16. #15
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    We can't write laws that work under the supposition of incompetence, prejudice, or perhaps in this case misandry because we know all judges pass out restraining orders against men freely.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    ...Learning how to do something well is always a good idea, but who sets the standard?
    It seems that in one case you would like to limit someone's 2A rights based on a judge setting the standards for issuing a restraining order, while, at the same time not wanting to limit the 2A rights because someone might set a standard.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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