Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

This is a discussion on Utah non-resident permits may be no more!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The people of California, Maryland, Illinois, New Jersey, Wisconsin and to a lesser extent numerous other states that either do not issue or do not ...

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Thread: Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

  1. #16
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    The people of California, Maryland, Illinois, New Jersey, Wisconsin and to a lesser extent numerous other states that either do not issue or do not have reciprocity see the need.
    It sounds like the citizens of those states should revolt against their own state's anti gun policy instead of going after Utah.

    Why should Utah & FL be the ones to provide the all state permits, instead maybe those states hold thier own politicians responsible.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapRackBang View Post
    It sounds like the citizens of those states should revolt against their own state's anti gun policy instead of going after Utah.

    Why should Utah & FL be the ones to provide the all state permits, instead maybe those states hold thier own politicians responsible.
    Because nothing, in politics or with politicians, happens overnight, particularly when they think they're kings and we are subjects. Until that changes, anything that helps upstanding people acquire the legal means to defend themselves seems a good thing ... doesn't it?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  4. #18
    Member Array cl00bie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If the practical result of removing the non-res feature is FEWER upstanding citizens being able to defend themselves with firearms, what else is it but anti-gun?
    My guess is that a goodly portion if not most of those applying for out of state Utah permits will never visit Utah. I believe one of the main purposes of getting a Utah permit is completing the "web of reciprocity" with all the states.

    There's also the case of permit holders wanting "to collect the whole set".
    -Tony

    "Those who beat their guns into plowshares will plow for those who didn't." -- Thomas Jefferson

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    The only states I know of are Utah and Florida that allow out of state permits...perhaps that is his argument.

    Rick
    The following states have laws providing for the issue of non-resident permits. Maryland and New Jersey aren't likely to issue any, but most of the others do. I have Utah, New Hampshire, and Pennsylvania.

    Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Washington.

    $24 of the Utah non-resident application fee goes to pay for the FBI background check or it did in 2006. The amount may have changed since then.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    The only states I know of are Utah and Florida that allow out of state permits...perhaps that is his argument.

    Rick
    There are several others, but UT and FL are the ones recognized in the most states and don't require you to hold a permit in another state already.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

  7. #21
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    Does anyone else find it ironic that the states are concerned about not receiving enough money to cover the background check. We have clean backgrounds, we pay the fees, take the required classes, and they still complain. Now if we are a common criminal the states are more than willing to do all local, state, and FBI background checks, check outstanding warrants, give us an attorney if we can't afford one, process fingerprints, all for NO CHARGE. Ain't the system great!!!


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  8. #22
    Member Array ryanjensen's Avatar
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    I got a Utah non-res for one simple reason: North Dakota and Minnesota do not have reciprocity between each other.

    I live and work in Fargo, ND and frequently travel across the river to Minnesota. Rather than applying and paying for two separate permits, I got one (Utah) that is accepted in both states.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Assuming this Senator is correct, UT should raise the fees for non-resident permits to offset any costs, and so the BCI doesn't have to lay people off.
    Also, assuming he's right that there's no way to track out-of-state permits, they could require a home state permit and use that to track permit holders. That would eliminate the people living in the commie states, but at least all the shall issue residents could still get a UT permit for reciprocity.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  10. #24
    Member Array oldie's Avatar
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    Be careful here, first non-residents then residents? If he is that anti-gun, it's possible!
    "We have met the enemy, and it is us." Pogo Possum

  11. #25
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    The crux of this is that we, as holders of CPL are United States citizens, and as such as we should be able to carry anywhere in the United States of America. "...,the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." This is a right, not given by the Second Amendment, because it pre-dates the Constitution (right to self defense), but is guaranteed by the Second Amendment. I do not think Davy Crockett or Jim Bowie wondered about where the state lines were as they traveled about.

    Precisely what dukalmighty said. We might have business or relatives in a state that has reciprocity with Utah, but the state we live in may not. It just gives us coverage, that should be there, to begin with.
    Vern
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  12. #26
    Member Array Wuchak's Avatar
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    When I first moved to KS we didn't have any type of CCW permit available. The only way to get one was to be a licensed private investigator. Missouri had just adopted their new CCW legislation but there was no way to get a non-resident permit. MO also honored Utah non-resident permits though. By getting my Utah non-resident permit I could carry when I went to downtown KC,MO which is where I really wanted to be able to carry. MO's law is different than others in that it recognizes Utah permits even for MO residents so if a MO resident got a Utah non-resident permit they didn't have to bother getting a MO permit. At the beginning of MO's permit issuance it was easier for MO residents to get a Utah non-resident permit than a MO resident permit so many did just that. When KS passed the CCW law they put in a provision to only recognize permits issued by the holder's state of residence. This meant that all the KS residents who had Utah non-resident permits had to go get a KS permit. Between the two I can carry in 36 states. KS alone gives me only 23.
    The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.-H. L. Mencken

  13. #27
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    .... and Kansas she says was the name of the star!
    Vern
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    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

  14. #28
    Member Array Wuchak's Avatar
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    A Utah permit non-resident permit lets you carry in 29 states (Utah residents get 34 but 5 of those state only honor permits issued by the holder's state of residence). If you are planning a trip to any of the states below (or to a national park in the state) then having a Utah permit is a good idea. The challenge is finding an instructor for the Utah class. They are not common in all states.
    AK
    AL
    AR
    AZ
    DE
    GA
    ID
    IN
    KY
    LA
    MN
    MO
    MS
    MT
    NC
    ND
    NM
    NV
    OH
    OK
    PA
    SD
    TN
    TX
    UT
    VA
    VT
    WA
    WY
    The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.-H. L. Mencken

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Mine is due for renewal in August. Guess I'll see what happens then.
    Best,
    Jerry

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Personally, I've never understood the need for nonresident CCWs.
    Really? Well, here is my reason. I have an AZ permit not recongnized by NV, nor WA. I travel to WA, sometimes via NV.

    So I actually asked the permit division here in AZ why our permit was not recognized by Washington State nor Nevada. Here is the response:



    Thank you for your interest in Arizona reciprocity agreements.

    Under Washington law a National Instant Criminal Background Check System
    (NICS) alone is insufficient to satisfy the mental health background check
    requirement they impose. Arizona would need to require a separate local
    mental health background check in order to satisfy Washington's
    requirements for concealed weapons permitting.

    Arizona utilizes NICS as a clearing mechanism for mental health background
    checks. We also obtain mental health court ordered treatment notification
    per ARS 36-540(N) from various Arizona state superior courts; which we
    forward to the NICS system. We do not specifically require a 'separate
    local mental health background check' as is stipulated by Washington law,
    therefore, they will not recognize Arizona concealed weapons permits.

    As for Nevada, the Nevada Legislature has not enacted legislation enabling
    reciprocity of concealed weapons permits with any other state. Additionally
    their laws governing concealed weapons are not 'substantially similar' to
    ours. For example, they will issue permits to convicted felons who have
    their rights restored, they issue permits by county and they authorize
    permit holders to carry only the type of gun they qualified with. In
    Arizona
    convicted felons must have a pardon to obtain a permit, CCW permits are
    issued by the state and there is one central repository who is responsible
    to verify the validity of the permit, additionally in Arizona you may carry
    a variety of concealed weapons (not just guns).

    Thank you again for your question and I hope this explanation helps you
    understand the issue we are faced with in regards to reciprocal agreements
    with the states of Washington and Nevada.



    Here is the interesting part: On my last trip to WA, I walked into a Sherriff's office, paperwork, passport, and AZ permit in hand and walked out with a laminated CPL for Washington State. Fifty min.. total. They did the background check there in seconds, fingerprinting in seconds.

    My AZ permit with background check, eight hours of classtime, shooting test (minimal however) and wait time is no good in WA, but walking in person to a Sherriff office gets me there. Go figure.

    So as silly as it sounds, I have three different permits and still have to disarm through Communist CA, and OR. It just makes no sense.

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