Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

This is a discussion on Utah non-resident permits may be no more!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Lawmaker: Limit gun permits to Utahns Concealed carry Out of state means out of control McCoy says in sponsoring bill By Sheena Mcfarland The ...

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Thread: Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

  1. #1
    Member Array lowdog's Avatar
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    Utah non-resident permits may be no more!!

    Lawmaker: Limit gun permits to Utahns
    Concealed carry Out of state means out of control McCoy says in sponsoring bill
    By Sheena Mcfarland

    The Salt Lake Tribune

    Updated: 01/16/2009 09:41:06 PM MST


    State Sen. Scott McCoy wants to reserve Utah concealed weapons permits for Utahns.

    The Salt Lake Democrat has unveiled a bill that would stop the Bureau of Criminal Identification from issuing permits to nonresidents, who now receive about half the tens of thousands issued each year.

    The bill has sent waves of anger through the gun-rights community, who portray it as anti-gun -- a charge McCoy denies.

    Pending budget cuts at BCI that could result in the loss of 11 employees spurred the draft legislation, said the lawmaker.

    "The time and resources of the BCI staff should be focusing on Utahns who are trying to get concealed weapon permits, and teachers and day care workers and others who need a background check," he said.

    In addition, he points to BCI's inability to track out-of-state instructors and permit holders.

    "If the permit holders are in Utah, we can check on a daily basis whether or not they should remain holders or if they should be revoked or disqualified," he said. "For the tens of thousands of out-of-state permit holders, we have no ability to do that whatsoever. For me, that says that's not a good system."

    But Utah gun-rights advocates say that rationale simply stems from an ideology that guns are bad. They point to the fact that the concealed-carry permit background checks are self-funded from application fees, and budget cuts won't affect those staffers.

    "Senator McCoy has projected these paranoid fantasies and mounted the most serious, egregious assault on firearms and the right to self defense that we've ever seen in the state," said Charles Hardy, policy director for Gun Owners of Utah. "There was no attempt to bring stakeholders to the table to address concerns. There was no good-faith effort here. This is an attack."

    Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Concealed Weapon Review Board, wonders why McCoy didn't address his concerns with the gun-owning community.

    "The budget has nothing to do with it. He is misrepresenting the facts and he's going back to the old line that Utah taxpayers are footing the bill," Aposhian said. "We have experts on our side. Let's honestly address the real issues. Let's work together."


  2. #2
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    Sounds like McCoy not only thinks guns are bad but permit holders are stupid.

    I have faith in the people of Utah to sink this ship before it gets to sea!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    If this went through, I have a feeling BCI would be making a lot more budget cuts. Enough people get nonres permits that it has to be a decent source of revenue. And if by some crazy chance it did go through, hopefully they would let you renew a nonres permit if you had one prior to the law being passed.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    The bill has sent waves of anger through the gun-rights community, who portray it as anti-gun -- a charge McCoy denies.
    If the practical result of removing the non-res feature is FEWER upstanding citizens being able to defend themselves with firearms, what else is it but anti-gun?

    Pending budget cuts at BCI that could result in the loss of 11 employees spurred the draft legislation, said the lawmaker.

    "The time and resources of the BCI staff should be focusing on Utahns who are trying to get concealed weapon permits ...
    ... implying that Utah citizens are waiting at the back of the bus while attention is paid elsewhere. If this were the only issue, the Utah BCI would simply separate the applications into two piles, processing Utah residents first. Smoke screen.

    This person apparently does think upstanding citizens are stupid.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    "If the permit holders are in Utah, we can check on a daily basis whether or not they should remain holders or if they should be revoked or disqualified," he said. "For the tens of thousands of out-of-state permit holders, we have no ability to do that whatsoever. For me, that says that's not a good system."
    This is an excuse. By the same token, Utah recognizes all other states CCW permits. So how does Utah verify that out-of-state permitee's are valid or whether or not they've been revoked? For those of you who have a Utah permit, look on the back, there is a number for LE to call and check validity.

    This guy is grasping at straws. The revenue for CCW permits in Utah is huge and Utah is making big money.

    My wife just took her CCW class today IN Utah. We spoke about this in the class but none of us thought it would happen ... especially with states that have formal reciprocity. Utah has formal reciprocity with 17 states.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    I hope they sink this before it get wind in the sail and remove this gentleman from office when the chance comes along.
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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Yea, this sounds bogus. I am under the impression that the fee applicants are charged covers the cost of background checks and issuing a permit. Cutting non-resident permits = no extra application fee $ = even more budget problems.

    If they were smart, they would just increase the fee...

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    Wouldn't it be nice, if instead of choking gun rights, that someone would introduce a bill for National CPL? It would simply involve that if someone were to receive a State Concealed Pistol License that they have met strict criteria for that license, and a simple request form with say $20.00 license fee, to be renewed at the date of their current State license, would give that citizen a National CPL as well as their State CPL, honored in any state that has basic CPL licensing. Michigan CPL is good for Michigan and their respective states with reciprocity. However, in this example, Michigan + National would equal that holder of both permits to carry in any state that has a CPL licensing program in effect at the time. Michigan could carry in Utah, or Colorado, or Nevada with the dual license.
    Would that make sense?
    Only drawback is that registers everyone with a CPL at the National level, rather than the State level. However, if one thinks that the Federal agencies are not able to glean information from the State levels, one is being naive.
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    Member Array hdawson's Avatar
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    Cool

    Personally, I've never understood the need for nonresident CCWs.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Personally, I've never understood the need for nonresident CCWs.
    How about if you plan to visit a state that doesn't honor your states concealed permit but honors a utah or florida non resident
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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  11. #11
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    The need is simple... With my SC permit, I can carry in many states, but I cant carry in GA and the 2 other neighbors to the west of GA, with a NH non-resident permit, I can :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Personally, I've never understood the need for nonresident CCWs.
    Assuming that you aren't joking about that statement.

    The people of California, Maryland, Illinois, New Jersey, Wisconsin and to a lesser extent numerous other states that either do not issue or do not have reciprocity see the need.

    The folks in states that don't issue or really don't issue can at least carry on a non-res permit when they leave their state. Some people live in states with poor reciprocity due to the fact that their state won't recognize any other state's permits. So they get out of state permits so that they can carry in more states as they travel.

    Or were you thinking that permits shouldn't be required at all to carry nationwide?

    On the OP, doesn't McCoy propose this bill every year?
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    I would hope that Utah is collecting enough money from the application fee to cover the cost of non-resident permits as well as the resident permit. I guess as a Utah tax payer I say raise the fee if need be or do away with the non resident permit but don't put it on Utah tax payers. It's not Utahn's fault that the other state permits are not honored as well, maybe other states should do the leg work that Utah has done to make there permits as good.

    I am not sure I see the anti gun in this. The bill says nothing about Utah resident permits just the need to cut back non residents do to funds.

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    The only states I know of are Utah and Florida that allow out of state permits...perhaps that is his argument.

    Rick

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Personally, I've never understood the need for nonresident CCWs.
    If you ever travelled much, like an RV, you would understand.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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