Compiling church shooting stories - Page 2

Compiling church shooting stories

This is a discussion on Compiling church shooting stories within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The UM Church has gone on record numerous times as being rabidly, strictly, to-its-bureaucratic-core, anti-gun, in the strongest possible terms. I parted company with that ...

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Thread: Compiling church shooting stories

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Sky Pilot's Avatar
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    The UM Church has gone on record numerous times as being rabidly, strictly, to-its-bureaucratic-core, anti-gun, in the strongest possible terms.
    I parted company with that particular franchise in the early '70s for that reason.

    From the United Methodist Church's Book of Resolutions, a call for restriction on availability, production and sale of handguns and ammunition:
    Gun Violence
    and also, "Church agencies voice dismay at ruling on gun control":
    News - Feature - UMC.org
    I could go on but you get the idea.

    I am looking for a gun-friendly church here in Northeast Ohio and so far it's like fishing in a bucket: no matter how comfortable the seat, it's been notoriously unproductive.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    A good reason to be a member of a nondenominational church. Lot less bureaucracy stuff to mess things up.
    There are pluses and minuses...

    Lots of upside for what denominations can do around the world.

    To each his own.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
    The UM Church has gone on record numerous times as being rabidly, strictly, to-its-bureaucratic-core, anti-gun, in the strongest possible terms.
    I parted company with that particular franchise in the early '70s for that reason.

    From the United Methodist Church's Book of Resolutions, a call for restriction on availability, production and sale of handguns and ammunition:
    Gun Violence
    and also, "Church agencies voice dismay at ruling on gun control":
    News - Feature - UMC.org
    I could go on but you get the idea.

    I am looking for a gun-friendly church here in Northeast Ohio and so far it's like fishing in a bucket: no matter how comfortable the seat, it's been notoriously unproductive.
    The funny thing is, 2 of my best friends in ministry, are avid shooters/gun-guys. 1 is theologically and politically conservative, the other is pretty liberal theologically, and very liberal politically.

    Go figure.

    The Southeast and the Southwest areas of the UMC are traditionally more conservative on both political and theological issues. They are also the areas with the VAST majority of United Methodists. Yet, the Northeast and the Western areas still hold much political clout. Most of the anti-gun legislation comes out of the NE and West.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  4. #19
    Member Array ChiWeiSz's Avatar
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    Sky Pilot.

    Try a Southern Baptist church - usually full of hunters and gun owners.

    I'm an ordained SB preacher/pastor/missionary - and I own, carry weapons. It's a good idea
    Trying to leave as large a carbon footprint as possible.
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiWeiSz View Post
    Sky Pilot.

    Try a Southern Baptist church - usually full of hunters and gun owners.

    I'm an ordained SB preacher/pastor/missionary - and I own, carry weapons. It's a good idea
    SBC local churches are independant of the "denomination" in most ways. That is not the case with some other denominations which have a hierarchy with the authority to dictate to the local church.

    I hope when a list is compiled it will be in a form that can be provided to us to use.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Pilot View Post
    The UM Church has gone on record numerous times as being rabidly, strictly, to-its-bureaucratic-core, anti-gun, in the strongest possible terms.
    I parted company with that particular franchise in the early '70s for that reason.

    From the United Methodist Church's Book of Resolutions, a call for restriction on availability, production and sale of handguns and ammunition:
    Gun Violence
    and also, "Church agencies voice dismay at ruling on gun control":
    News - Feature - UMC.org
    I could go on but you get the idea.

    I am looking for a gun-friendly church here in Northeast Ohio and so far it's like fishing in a bucket: no matter how comfortable the seat, it's been notoriously unproductive.

    As our UM clergy brother will tell you, the Book of Resolutions has no force of law in The United Methodist Church. It's the place where endless hairbrained notions are conjured up by anyone who can get a majority "yea" vote in General Conference. ("General Conference" is United Methodist speak for its every four year, church-wide time to make policy/law). The Book of Resolutions itself has become so massive it's probably best used for pressing flowers...or maybe testing bullet penetration.

    From a practical and legal viewpoint, the real issue is probably how your state law determines who has authority to make decisions for the local church. As much as I enjoy reading these forums, this ain't the place where you want to seek such an opinion. The risk of being wrong is too costly.

    By the way, I'm pleased your pastor seems to be an open minded person with respect to firearms/self-defense.

    PC

  7. #22
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    [QUOTE=miklcolt45;988668]
    Your pastor has already told you his/her stance, or s/he would have given you approval without asking the conference, or caring about their 'stand.' [QUOTE]

    I hear what you are saying, but my pastor is not in a position to make waves at this point in time. I can assure you he is a 2A believer, and he and his son have been to my house to shoot before. He is conservative, and is one of the most rock solid christian men I have known.

    [QUOTE=miklcolt45;988668]Your other option, depending on the makeup of your congregation, would be your church's Church Council or Administrative Board, or whatever nomenclature y'all are using. [QUOTE]

    This may be the path I take. It is a small country church and this is the most likely path for success. I will approach the administrative council about this, that may take it out of the pastors hands so he don't have to stick his neck out (any further).

    [QUOTE=miklcolt45;988668]I am not 100% positive, but I doubt that the conference's policy is enforceable on a pastor or congregation. I AM certain that the Social Principles are guidelines which are not enforceable within church polity. [QUOTE]

    Here is the exact wording from the Ohio Revised Code "(B) A valid license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places: .... (6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise;"

    I would take that to mean the individual church. Not the district, not the conference, etc. But then, I am not a lawyer.

  8. #23
    New Member Array boda65's Avatar
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    Compiling church shooting stories

    I want to thank everyone for their response. I am learning a great deal from this discussion and appreciate the opinions and links that have been posted. I am a Christian first, and Methodist second. I chose this church because it is a bible believing church and it has an active youth program, among other reasons. I could care less about "brand names" I will not leave this particular church just because the denominations heirarchy is liberal. Again, thanks!

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boda65 View Post
    I want to thank everyone for their response. I am learning a great deal from this discussion and appreciate the opinions and links that have been posted. I am a Christian first, and Methodist second. I chose this church because it is a bible believing church and it has an active youth program, among other reasons. I could care less about "brand names" I will not leave this particular church just because the denominations heirarchy is liberal. Again, thanks!
    I understand and agree.

    God bless and good luck!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by boda65 View Post
    I want to thank everyone for their response. I am learning a great deal from this discussion and appreciate the opinions and links that have been posted. I am a Christian first, and Methodist second. I chose this church because it is a bible believing church and it has an active youth program, among other reasons. I could care less about "brand names" I will not leave this particular church just because the denominations heirarchy is liberal. Again, thanks!
    My sentiments exactly!

    PC

  11. #26
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    Update on one

    The Joplin Globe, Joplin, MO - Guilty plea anticipated in church-shooting case

    Guilty plea anticipated in church-shooting case




    By Derek Spellman

    dspellman@joplinglobe.com

    NEOSHO, Mo. — A Neosho man who is charged with killing three leaders of a Micronesian church congregation in Neosho is expected to plead guilty later this week.

    Newton County Prosecutor Jacob Skouby said he anticipates a guilty plea from Eiken Saimon in accordance with a tentative agreement with his office. He declined to disclose further details pending a hearing on Friday.

    “We are confident of a plea Friday,” he said.

    Saimon, 53, previously pleaded innocent to three counts of murder, four counts of assault, and one count each of felonious restraint and armed criminal action.

    He is accused of walking into the First Congregational Church with a semiautomatic pistol and a .22-caliber handgun, and opening fire during an Aug. 12, 2007, service for Micronesian members of the church. Saimon is a native of the Micronesian island of Pohnpei.

    Cynthia Dryden, one of the public defenders representing Saimon, declined to comment when contacted Monday.

    Skouby said prosecutors were seeking the death penalty against Saimon because the case met some of the aggravating circumstances spelled out in state statutes, including the allegation of multiple murder victims and the alleged “outrageously or wantonly vile” nature of the slayings.

    Saimon’s defense attorneys earlier this year filed motions to preclude the state from seeking the death penalty, including objections to the state’s aggravating circumstances, according to online court records.

    Saimon also is charged with second-degree statutory rape and second-degree statutory sodomy in connection with a separate alleged incident on Aug. 10, 2007. He has pleaded innocent to those charges.

    Skouby said the anticipated plea should cover all the charges pending against Saimon.

    Killed at the church in August 2007 were a Micronesian-American pastor, Kernel Rehobson, 43; his uncle, Intenson Rehobson, 44; and Kuhpes Jesse Ikosia, 53. All three men were church leaders. Four other church members were wounded.

    Saimon reportedly told investigators that he embarked on the shooting spree because he was angry about disparaging comments that other members of the Micronesian community had made about him.

    He is being held at the Newton County Jail. Bond has been denied on charges connected to the shooting.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by snip View Post
    I don't have any stories but i have something similar at my church. In SC you can carry if you get permission to from the appropiate church official. I went to the right people to ask but they told me that i was not allowed to carry because it would confuse there security team.
    Funny that there's no confusion when taking up a collection.

    To the OP...keep working, honorable effort...good luck!
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