Compiling church shooting stories

This is a discussion on Compiling church shooting stories within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A little background: In Ohio, it is illegal to CCW in a church UNLESS the church has a policy permitting it. I aproached our pastor ...

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Thread: Compiling church shooting stories

  1. #1
    New Member Array boda65's Avatar
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    Compiling church shooting stories

    A little background: In Ohio, it is illegal to CCW in a church UNLESS the church has a policy permitting it. I aproached our pastor about it, and he is supportive, but informed me that our denominations' conference has declared all UM churches in our conference are CPZ's. I am going to work on a presentation to try and reverse this. I am compiling a list of recent church shootings. If you know of any not on this list, please post with a link to the story. I am interested in all, and am especially looking for instances where a congregant stopped it with a weapon. The only case of this I know of is the one in Colorado. The links below are from the following cities respectively: Colorado Springs, CO; Baton Rouge, LA; Ft Worth TX; Knoxville TN; Milwaukee WI; Clifton NJ; Portland, OR; Suitland MD. Thanks!
    FOXNews.com - Colorado Shooting Highlights Churches' New Emphasis on Security - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News
    5 Dead In Louisiana Church Shooting, 4 Killed In Church, Suspect's Wife Found Dead Later - CBS News
    Online NewsHour: Church Shooting -- September 16, 1999
    Witnesses recall church shooting horror - TODAY: People - MSNBC.com
    Church, Police Probe 7 Murders, Gunman Apparently Walked Out Of Church Service Two Weeks Ago - CBS News
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/26/ny...urch.html?_r=1
    Man arrested in Portland church shooting - KOINLocal6.com
    Police Seek Leads in Shooting at Church - washingtonpost.com

    Thanks,
    Jim

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  3. #2
    Member Array snip's Avatar
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    I don't have any stories but i have something similar at my church. In SC you can carry if you get permission to from the appropiate church official. I went to the right people to ask but they told me that i was not allowed to carry because it would confuse there security team.

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    Jim,

    I do not know how to make the links, but if this helps in your research. Three local TV stations that carried the Knoxville shooting. WATE Ch.6, WVLT ch.8, and WBIR Ch.10. Also the local paper which is the Knox News Sentinel. Maybe you could check the archives on their websites.
    I do know that there was a lot of talk of local churchs making a big effort to form security teams or to better organize the ones that they had. They made a big push for video survallence, access control and lock down capabilities. Good luck on your project.
    CCRIDER
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    mkh
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    Thats a good idea.. change the policy and make the system work for you!

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    Gunman in church in Henderson, TX


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    Good idea and good luck boda. It was the Colorado church shootings that finally snapped me into reality (my son knows one of the surviving shooting victims) and I immediately went out and got my CC permit and 9mm pistol right before XMAS 07!!

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    Member Array rainmaker's Avatar
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    boda65, check churchsecuritymember dot com. They have a list like this on their forum, as well as info on church security. I'm sure they would be willing to help some and give you ideas for your presentation. Based in Dayton, too.
    Steve

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    VIP Member Array JAT40's Avatar
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    I remember this from '05 in Texas a nut job that lived across the street shot the pastor in the parking lot. FOXNews.com - Five Dead in Texas Church Shootings - U.S. & World
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Which Conference?
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    Senior Member Array Sarge43's Avatar
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    Here's one that happened in Neosho, Mo not too long ago. Small comunity, small church, everyone knew the shooter.
    Man, 52, Charged In Neosho Church Shooting - Kansas City News Story - KMBC Kansas City
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boda65 View Post
    A little background: In Ohio, it is illegal to CCW in a church UNLESS the church has a policy permitting it. I aproached our pastor about it, and he is supportive, but informed me that our denominations' conference has declared all UM churches in our conference are CPZ's. I am going to work on a presentation to try and reverse this.
    Jim,

    Good luck. Or, maybe I should say 'fat chance.'

    The UMC's Social Principles say that all churches are to be filled with fish in a barrel, er..., helpless sheep waiting to be fed on by bloodthirsty wolv..., oh, sorry..., are to be Criminal Protection Zones, nope, that's not it...hmm, let me think...oh, yeah, "Violence Free Zones." You live in a more-liberal leaning part of the country, especially when it comes to clergy and conference leadership.

    While I am in a somewhat more conservative area than you, I don't think I could get something like this through our Annual Conference until Hell freezes over (at which point, of course, why would we need it since all the BGs would be frozen solid!).

    Your pastor has already told you his/her stance, or s/he would have given you approval without asking the conference, or caring about their 'stand.' I am not 100% positive, but I doubt that the conference's policy is enforceable on a pastor or congregation. I AM certain that the Social Principles are guidelines which are not enforceable within church polity.

    Your other option, depending on the makeup of your congregation, would be your church's Church Council or Administrative Board, or whatever nomenclature y'all are using. If you know folks well enough, you might start informally talking with them. I think it's a long shot, but you might have a chance.

    BTW, I am a UM pastor.
    Last edited by miklcolt45; January 19th, 2009 at 09:38 AM. Reason: removed extraneous quote
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    Member Array dhshark's Avatar
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    Man and a woman (with a gun) walk into a Columbus, OH church and rob the church members.

    10TV - WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio's News Leader

    Dennis

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    mkh
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    A good reason to be a member of a nondenominational church. Lot less bureaucracy stuff to mess things up.

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Don't just restrict your report to shootings, stabbings still happen.

    WRIC Richmond News and Weather - Pastor Recovering After Church Attack

    Good luck and I hope you are able to change some hearts.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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