Lady friend finally admits Pepper Spray or Mace Ok...which one?
This is a discussion on Lady friend finally admits Pepper Spray or Mace Ok...which one? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This lady is a 50 something nurse with a severe gun phobia but has finally conceded that carry Mace or Pepper Spray is OK in ...
January 19th, 2009 12:37 AM
Lady friend finally admits Pepper Spray or Mace Ok...which one?
This lady is a 50 something nurse with a severe gun phobia but has finally conceded that carry Mace or Pepper Spray is OK in her mind. Not being an expert on either; recomendations please. This would be in Florida.
January 19th, 2009 01:30 AM
I prefer a tazer but that is off topic. peper spray and mace is like a tazer and a stun gun. a tazer has cables that shoot out of it and a stun gun does not and needs to be brought into contact with the target.
mace is pepper spray with dye in it. for technical definitions as for what to actually get her i have heard that fox makes good stuff but i really dont like the stuff my self cause of the problems associated with it.
January 19th, 2009 02:12 AM
Fox Labs spray, but it isn't going to magically drop an attacker. Some people have no reaction at all to the stuff.
It beats nothing, but it is a serious compromise. With that said, I try to carry my fox labs 2 oz. spray whenever possible.
January 19th, 2009 02:15 AM
Pepper is much better than mace.
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
January 19th, 2009 02:16 AM
OC...either Fox or Sabre.
And be aware, like the others said, it may not always work. I'll add that when you spray that stuff, everyone seems to get a taste...
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
January 19th, 2009 04:26 AM
Actually, they are two very different products. I had a full face of Sabre Red OC last month and will vouch for it's effectiveness. While there are some people that can "shake it off", that is rare enough that you shouldn't worry about it.
Originally Posted by snip
Fox is supposed to be pretty good but Sabre Red is supposed to be near the top (5 million SHUs). Get the "cone" instead of the foam so they don't scrape it of and throw it back at you. As KenpoTex said once you spray it, move away to reduce the dose you get.
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
January 19th, 2009 05:44 AM
Well, I personally think only carrying less than lethals is a bad idea, not a guarentee it will stop an attacker. A tazer is only useful for the time of the jolt, then the BG can once again attack, also you have to get both prongs to hit or it won't work. A stun gun has the same limitations plus you have to be within contact range. Does getting hit with something like that hurt, yes, but you can still be combat effective after it, so it might just make the BG angry.
For sprays I'd go with a good OC, but once again, it's not a magic fight stopper and some people aren't too affected by it. Also, if you are going to use pepper spray, you should be hit with it before you start carrying it, because you would probably be using it under less than ideal conditions, and odds are you will get some on you. OC hurts, it even makes Marines cry, but it isn't a be all end all. Just my opinion on it.
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Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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January 19th, 2009 08:10 AM
I carry Fox Labs. Better than nothing when I can't CC (like at work)...
Keep working on her, most nurses are pretty realistic folks - it may just take time for her to accept the concept...
EDIT: They sell the FoxLabs in a small keychain cannister - very discreet and handy size.
The two ounce is better if you are camping, etc and aren't as concerned about space constraints or concealing.
Last edited by topknot; January 19th, 2009 at 08:43 AM.
Reason: added content
January 19th, 2009 09:50 AM
I got hit with a dose of something along these lines back in High School... Someone was trying to be funny in class and picked it up off the girl's desk next to us (it was one of those key chain ones)... I have no idea if it was OC, mace, or pepper... but the guy didn't think it would spray and it did.
I got really pissed until I realized it was only mildly irritating and didn't really hurt. In fact, my eyes were still open and I was able to administer a friendly pounding to my buddy... By this point everyone else in the class room is evacuating because they're all being affected a lot more than I was. That was when I decided that the sprays are not effective enough... Again, I'm not sure what it was, and it was probably one of the more milder varieties... but at any rate - it shook my faith in them.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost
January 19th, 2009 10:54 AM
My wife is a nurse and she has told me of the administrative policies of the hospitals here and what some nurses think about 2A, self-defese, etc. Some of her co-workers finally "came around" after seeing so many victims in the hospital that didn't have away to defend themselves. My wife knew of only 2 other nurses that actually shot weapons, not that the rest of them were anti or anything.
Mace is a brand name for a chemical spray that a lot of people use to call self-defense sprays. Mace brand sprays come in different combinations of chemicals
The most common type of self-defense spray is called OC (oleoresin capsicum), made from chemicals of pepper plants.
Some self-defense sprays combine OC along with tear gas, and then others combine OC and/or tear gas with UV dye to help identify the sprayee later.
Self-defense sprays have ratings for the percentage of the spray that is the actual chemical agent, typically 2%, 5%, 10%, or 15% are the most common. They also have Scoville Heat Units (SHUs) that rate the hotness of the spray (most are 2,000,000 or 5,000,000 SHUs)
These ratings are misleading in that the 15% is not more effective than the 2%, but the 15% will burn a lot longer.
Then there is the canister size. Options available are: a pen with OC-looks just like a pen to write with but contains a small amount of OC instead of ink; small canisters that look like lipstick, 2 or 4 ounce spray cans are the most common and some states restrict the size you can purchase and/or carry.
Lastly is the spray type, typically its stream/cone or foam. The foam is a little more difficult to get on target effectively and it does not "kick in" a quickly as the stream/cone type but keeps its affect longer than the stream/cone. Hence, the stream/cone has a more effective spray pattern for getting the agent on target, you can blanket an area around a subject and get 'em where with the foam you can't. The spray/cone has a more instant effect than the foam but its affect doesn't last as long (though long enough to do the job)
Self-defense sprays are not 100% effective on everyone, some show no reaction, and other are varied from only eyes burning to having airway constriction and almost dying.
Fox labs makes a good product. Another popular one is PUNCH III which is what my LE agency issues and I can personally testify to its effectiveness.
I'm glad you're friend is seeing that she needs to take steps to protect herself. I would remind her of situational awareness, seeing what is around here, what people are doing, walking towards her/following her, etc.; not going to places to increase her chance of getting in a bind. She also needs to know that this spray is not going to end all attacks, she could still get hit/assaulted or even severely injured due to an attacker still getting to her and pounding her face in. I've seen it happen where 2 women sprayed an attacker they knew was coming to their house and he still fought through it and punched both of them in the face. In fact, when we get sprayed for certification for LEO, we get sprayed and had to find a baton and give verbal commands and make baton strikes before we were allowed to make the fun trip to the shower. Just imagine a crackhead in the same situation.
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If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
January 19th, 2009 10:57 AM
As others have said, Mace is a completely different product from OC (pepper spray). OC is much more effective. I also personally prefer Fox Labs.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
January 19th, 2009 11:12 AM
January 19th, 2009 11:20 AM
There's gotta be a good reason that pepper spray is pretty much the standard for PDs. Legality may not be an issue in FL, but in some places (MI, for example) tear gas is forbidded while a civilian can carry up to 2% pepper spray, but as other have mentions, it is the shu that counts. FOX labs has a good rep.
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January 19th, 2009 04:46 PM
Most importantly is good Situational Awareness (SA), that'll save your bacon more than pepper spray or a gun has the chance to. Make sure she has and practices SA always.
Also, she needs to have the capability to use it. Some people couldn't harm a fly.
Best of luck.
Speak softly, and carry a big stick.
January 19th, 2009 09:41 PM
I always carry some form of pepperspray in my pocket.
Sabre Red or Fox are both great products. I would recommend
the stream vs the fogger as there is less chance of it blowing back
due to windy conditions.
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