New interest in CCW among teachers

New interest in CCW among teachers

This is a discussion on New interest in CCW among teachers within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I instruct concealed carry in AZ & UT. Lately I have had an influx of teachers (included 3 principals) in our area (UT) requesting concealed ...

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Thread: New interest in CCW among teachers

  1. #1
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    New interest in CCW among teachers

    I instruct concealed carry in AZ & UT. Lately I have had an influx of teachers (included 3 principals) in our area (UT) requesting concealed carry courses.

    It appears that Col Grossman had taught a course in the area and alot of teachers and administators attended.

    I am developing a lecture to discuss the concealed carry issues, specific to our schools with the teachers. ie.. lock down procedures, security, building design etc.

    Any suggestions?? I know alot of issues will be state statue & school policy specific. I just thought I would throw this out here for some discussion.

    I am really impress with our local schools, looks like the sheep dogs will soon out number the sheep.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Well, let's see.

    I presume you are talking about K-12 schools. I am also presuming the intent is protecting the students from outside threats rather than protecting themselves from the students.

    They are in the absolute position of having to be the "Sheep Dog" and their first and foremost priority is to protect the students under their charge.

    My thoughts on this are going to require that the schools allow armed teachers and staff.

    1. Absolute weapon control and concealment. There can be no chance that the minors can get access to the weapons. Deep on body concealment.

    2. It will have to be a team effort. Their weapons handling and tactics are going to have to border on LEO for clearing and securing buildings and their occupants.

    3. Means for instant communication among each other in the event of an emergency.

    4. Several plans set in place and drilled for evacuating the students from the building or securing the students in an area where they have the best advantage. The students will have to be drilled in this as well, and more frequently than the "Fire Drills" since there will be more than "go to your nearest fire exit in a calm and orderly manner".

    5. You are also going to need the support of the parents and community on this matter as well. They are going to have to trust and believe in the abilities of the staff to posses firearms around their children.

    I am still a bit groggy. I will ponder this some more and add to if if needed.

    Hope this helps as a start.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    I'm happy to hear this. I firmly believe someone on the school administration staff (ie. a vice prinicipal, guidance counselor, etc) should be armed at all times. It doesn't have to be the same person every day or even just one person, but somebody should be armed and properly trained in every school in America.

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    Member Array Zuki-doo's Avatar
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    I am a teacher and I wish I could be armed while on campus. In Michigan there was a proposed bill to allow armed teachers a couple of years ago, but of course it went no where.

    Training is key...I would love to see something where school protection focused training was available to teachers.

    However, most teachers and administrators are liberal and anti-gun. I talk openly with my peers about how important it is to protect yourself and how a firearm can be an integral part of that protection - most of them just think "it will never happen to me."

    I've convinced a couple of teachers - there are now 3 of us (out of a staff of about 20) that have CCW's. And, one of our janitors is signed up for a class next month. And another teacher who keeps saying he wants to take the class, but never finds the time.

    Unfortunately, since we can't be armed on school grounds (except, in Michigan, it is ok to be armed in the parking lot) it doesn't do our kids or ourselves a lot of good.
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  5. #5
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zuki-doo View Post
    Unfortunately, since we can't be armed on school grounds (except, in Michigan, it is ok to be armed in the parking lot) it doesn't do our kids or ourselves a lot of good.
    I disagree a bit. Sure, it would be ideal if you could be armed in the classroom. However, if there is an active shooter similar to Columbine or VT, one of you could get to a car to retrieve your firearm and get BACK into the school.

    I appreciate LEOs, but they will likely respond, set up a perimeter in which fully armed and armored up officers will hunker down behind cars and trees until they find out what's EXACTLY going on while people are shot. You, on the other hand, could do something to stop the shooter without letting established procedures get in the way.

    This is NOT flame bait for SWAT/LEO types, just a common sense observation.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    I disagree a bit. Sure, it would be ideal if you could be armed in the classroom. However, if there is an active shooter similar to Columbine or VT, one of you could get to a car to retrieve your firearm and get BACK into the school.

    I appreciate LEOs, but they will likely respond, set up a perimeter in which fully armed and armored up officers will hunker down behind cars and trees until they find out what's EXACTLY going on while people are shot. You, on the other hand, could do something to stop the shooter without letting established procedures get in the way.

    This is NOT flame bait for SWAT/LEO types, just a common sense observation.
    Not anymore most departments with an active shooter on scene have trained first officers on scene to enter the building and actively seek out the shooter.I would tend to train more to secure the classroom and defensively hold that area,as far as administrators,possibly train as a team to search out and engage the shooter in the hallways
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I would tend to train more to secure the classroom and defensively hold that area ...
    Yup. I'd think that an ensconced position actively defended could be far more easily held than going out in the hallways and rooms to "clear" the school, particularly with light/occasional training and moderate practice. Clearing buildings is risky business, more suitable for folks (or a team of people) appropriately trained. Doesn't mean that administrators and desk jockeys couldn't do it, but then who would be guarding the kids while they're out clearing the hallways?
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    Dukalmighty beat me to it.

    Those days of hunkering down while shots are being fired are gone.

    The biggest thing I can see is to make sure that if shots are being fired that any cops responding to an "active shooter" scenario are going to be looking for anyone with a gun. They more than likely wont know the teacher and the teacher could very well get shot.

    If a teacher can safely neutralize a threat then they need to do so if possible. If not, they need to secure the door,turn off the lights and protect the door and let the officers do the rest.

    That needs to be fully understood by all teachers. They need to understand how the police will act. There needs to be dialog between the two so that in the event that it does happen, everyone will be on the same page.

    There are too many real life examples of "good people" being shot because they didn't do what they were told, or they moved to suddenly or because of miscommunication.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    2. It will have to be a team effort. Their weapons handling and tactics are going to have to border on LEO for clearing and securing buildings and their occupants.
    Gotta disagree here. Just as it isn't advisable for an armed citizen to engage in house clearing, nor would it be advisable for teachers or administrators to do so in a school shooting situation. While the current lock-down procedures only make sitting ducks of the students, the same procedure with the enhancement of armed defenders makes sense. Ultimately it is still a job for law enforcement; teachers/admins are there for a holding action (lethal if need be) until the troops arrive. The focus of the training should be a strictly defensive one, protecting your charges - not to actively seek the evil-doer.

    Just my $.02

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Bob View Post
    Gotta disagree here. Just as it isn't advisable for an armed citizen to engage in house clearing, nor would it be advisable for teachers or administrators to do so in a school shooting situation. While the current lock-down procedures only make sitting ducks of the students, the same procedure with the enhancement of armed defenders makes sense. Ultimately it is still a job for law enforcement; teachers/admins are there for a holding action (lethal if need be) until the troops arrive. The focus of the training should be a strictly defensive one, protecting your charges - not to actively seek the evil-doer.

    Just my $.02

    Adios,

    Pizza Bob
    Well, what I wrote and how I meant it to read are different, I see that now.

    I would never imply that school faculty go actively looking for the shooter. What I meant to say in that statement was that the faculty would need to be able to work together in securing an area to "hunker down" or a tactical advance to the rear securing/escorting the students to safety outside and away from the building.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Distinguished Member Array Siafu's Avatar
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    My I know 4 people who are teachers who recently applied for their CCW permits. I am thinking that they are responding to the political climate. Teachers are citizens too, and they have as much right to be armed as the rest of us.

  12. #12
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    We have lots and lots of teachers in this city with permits, my wife being one of them.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Not anymore most departments with an active shooter on scene have trained first officers on scene to enter the building and actively seek out the shooter.
    That's good...glad to hear it.

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    Member Array BLACKLINEDUNN's Avatar
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    My wife is a teacher and I agree they they should have the right to deffend themselves and thier students if they are willing. My wife is not allowed to have a firearm on school grounds even in her locked car if she had a CCL. I have my CCL and can only pick up my wife or child and not enter the building. I am not allowed to disarm and enter the building and leave my CCW in the truck. I feel that it would greatly deter these asshats from shooting up schools and children if they knew there were a few determined teachers in the building that were ready to deffend the kids. The reason schools and churches get shot up so often is because the cowards know that they will encounter little or no resistance. There is campus security but it is 3 different officers for 5 different school buildings in our town. I would feel better if my wife could legally arm herself after passing a state approved course.
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