The odds of being denied in FL?

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Thread: The odds of being denied in FL?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    MailBox control!!!
    I always knew those things were dangerous.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    "Disparity of Force" should apply, I was out-numbered!

    This all took place in the same time-period that I aquired the "nick" of "mad mike."

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Seems "Mr. MacFeely" would be more appropriate. LOL

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    It took me a couple of minutes to research that "literary reference!"

    When I was young enough to watch shows like Mr. Rogers, I had no interest in them. Besides, it was all Black & White, and was referred to as "picture radio."

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    It just keeps getting weirder!!!

    Turns out the FDLE supplied the info that there had been a charge made back in 1974. What they didn't supply was the disposition of the case. So, they wrote to the county for the needed information on Jan. 25th.

    I got "antsy" and went to the county gov. center, myself and requested to see my file. No matter how they ran the search, the results came back as "No record found."

    So, when the county finally does reply to the license folks, that most likely going to be the "info" they supply.

    I located the attorney that handled the case. His records don't go back that far.

    Seems to me that the (Shall issue) State must show cause that my civil rights not be afforded me, due to their having been revoked in a criminal court proceeding. I should NOT have to "prove" that they were not taken away in the first place.

    Am I looking at going to court (read: expensive!) to have my civil rights restored, when they were never taken away in the first place?

    How absurd!

    It occurs to me that I've never answered a question on a job application where I was asked if I'd ever been "charged" with a crime, I insist they the proper question is "have I ever been convicted of a crime?"
    I consider the former question to be entirely improper, the later is the valid one.

    I still don't know what they are going to do, but I would like to argue the case that must show just cause to deny my rights, and failing that, issue the damned permit.

    Yet again, I point out that I'm not a lawyer, but a reading of the law seems to say that even if I'd been judged guilty (and I was NOT,) the fact that it was 30 years ago would NOT be cause to deny the permit. In all the questions asked, they gave a time-frame of "in the past 3 years," or "past 6 years." And those crimes listed were all either drug related or violent in nature. And my case did not fall into those areas.

    If eventually denied, I will find out how to appeal the decision. No mention of that exist on the State web site. I might have to "invent" one. I cannot afford legal representation, so I may have to do it myself.

    Maybe I'm seeing it too simplistically. Only through the due process of a criminal court proceeding, can my civil rights be taken from me. That did NOT happen. An agency of the State cannot of its own volition strip me of those rights, without due process, by a simple decree. That is NOT justice.

    They cannot tell me I have to prove my civil rights are in tact. They must provide evidence that my rights were taken away. I'm not supposed to be the one making a claim, the burden of proof should be theirs. (I'm running out of ways to say this!) After all it is a Right I seek, not just the "licensed privilege" they've unconstitutionally turned it into.

    Can you tell I'm starting to get just a little frustrated?

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  7. #21
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    Mike - I truly feel your pain - it is absurd beyond belief.

    Frustration? I'll say but - one way or another this has all gotta come out right - it must. Pity tho you have all these crazy hoops and hurdles.

    I sincerely wish you luck in this crazy quest and look forward to the day you can post and say - ''it's all over''!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Chris,

    Just got off the phone with Mr. Wilkinson, the most-helpful person in public service I've dealt with in many a year. The process has moved on into an area outside his domain, but he's going to talk to the people now in control of the situation and see what he can find out for me.

    He tends to agree that this should not go badly, but does say that it is within the realm of possibility. It seems to come down to "was it a felony or misdemeanor?" If it was the latter, no problem. If the former, then problem.

    My contention is that in either finding, there was NO adjudication of guilt. The real problem might be my "no contest" plea. But still, there was no finding of guilt.

    I asked about my having to go back to court and incurring a large legal bill in the process, he said it shouldn't come to that, and there is an appeals process within the system that we'd talk about, should there actually be a need.

    He offered to give me a phone call after he's talked to those other people, today. But I'm going to a class from 1 to 5, so I asked if he could send me an "email update," instead. That's what he's going to do.

    I'm already composing a letter for Mr. Wilkinson's boss, telling him what a great job is being done for me. No matter what the final outcome, he deserves recognition for his efforts.

    Come to think of it, I'll "cc" that letter to the Gov, as well.

    Should the decision go against me, then the everybody from the Gov on down will be hearing from me, and I seriously doubt they'll have any trouble finding out "just who I am" in the future.

    Maybe they'll designate me as the "Official Florida State P.I.T.A."

    Mike
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike
    Maybe they'll designate me as the "Official Florida State P.I.T.A." Mike
    No chance Mike, that's my Uncle's job!
    Glad to hear you've got someone on your side. I like your idea of sending a letter up the chain of command. When we had our attempted break-in last Summer I did the same for the responding Officer - sent an email to the Chief of Police, just to tell him how helpful and professional the Officer was when he arrived.

    I later found out my email was also forwarded to his Precinct Commander, the Officer himself and a copy would be placed in his personnel folder. Figured the least I could do was get the Officer an "Attaboy" and maybe a little help come review time.

    Sometimes a little effort goes a long way.
    Jack

  10. #24
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    Good to have someone helpful on your side Mike - that at least saves some head-banging on walls.

    Looks like still a long haul but we'll all be rootin' for ya here and as I said, hope to hear good news, eventually. No way BTW I could see a ''felony'' label being used - that would seem absurd - but I am no lawyer!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Not 100% sure this post isn't premature, but last Friday, I did fax the records search result I got from Pasco County to Melinda Jenkins, per her request.

    Today, I wrote and asked if they were of any help and she said they'd been added to my "file" and I should "Please allow 7 to 14 days to receive the permit."

    Not wanting to "jump the gun," so-to-speak, I immediately wrote back, "Just so I don't misunderstand, does the phrase you used, "Please allow 7 to
    14 days to receive the permit." mean that the permit is, or has been
    approved?"

    Her reply was, "Yes it mean that the permit has been approved."

    As soon as I read that, I emailed her again with a "thank you" note and then sent the same to Ken Wilkinson, who was also most helpful to me.

    The funny thing is, I'd already sent an email to the head of their department, before hearing the "good news," to let him know what a good job they were doing as "public servants." I felt he should know that, no matter what the outcome of my application was.

    And there was not enough time between my writing their boss and the good news I received, for it to have had anything to do with the decision.

    So, in 7 to 14 days, I should have concrete proof that my quest is over.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  12. #26
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    That's great!! Sometimes the good guys DO win!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Just got an additonal email from Ken Wilkinson, the man I first exchanged emails with about my application and now I do feel safe in saying that things are going well.

    He confirmed that I have been approved and that my permit will be printed later today, if not, then tomorrow. After that, the long but standard "7 to 14" days for it to get here. (Bet it doesn't actually take that long.)

    I must say again, the people working in Tallahassee, in the licensing section, are doing a great job and its nice to know we have such people working for "us." That is the impression I got from talking with them, by the way. They do work for us.

    With more people in public service like them, I'd have much less to complain about!

    If I hadn't already sent a letter to the head of the Dept. of Ag, I'd be writing one now. Perhaps I won't stop there, maybe I'll drop "Jeb" a line while I'm at it.

    Mike
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Glad you got approved ..


    Decided what your going to carry yet?

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Bud,

    It's on my hip, right NOW!

    No, I'm not "jumping the gun," I've only been carrying at home, to find out what the best method for me is going to be. Doing this was on advice I got right here on the Forum.

    I've got a Glock 23, .40 S&W, in a Blackhawk SERPA holster on the strong side and a Fobus paddle mag carrier on the weak side.

    Current internal debate is changing to a dual mag carrier, or one that carries a spare mag and an OC spray. Might go dual mags and carry the OC elsewhere.

    On order, is a K&D Laredo holster and belt. For now, that Blackhawk will serve nicely.

    MY wife has her application packet already and should be taking the required course, very soon. She decided on a Glock 26 in 9mm, herself.

    We try to get to the range together, once a week. Not always do-able, due to our conflicting work schedules, but we do make every effort to do so.

    Also, I've located what looks to be a good "advanced" CCW course, close enough to get to, that doesn't cost the $300 or $400 I was expecting. A place in Clearwater, FL, called "Major Norm Belson, Inc."

    In fact, I'm going to make a post in the "Training" section to see if anyone has any experience with him. From his web site, his credentials sound pretty good. . .

    WAIT! All you asked was, did I decide what to carry!

    Yeppir! I decided on a G23.

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    lol thats ok Mike yeah post and see if anyone has taking that training

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