FL: not at airport, but dropping friend off - Page 2

FL: not at airport, but dropping friend off

This is a discussion on FL: not at airport, but dropping friend off within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; How about at the rental car center accross from the airport like the in Fort lauderdale? I heard its a Gov. building...would you be alright ...

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Thread: FL: not at airport, but dropping friend off

  1. #16
    Member Array peteG30's Avatar
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    How about at the rental car center accross from the airport like the in Fort lauderdale? I heard its a Gov. building...would you be alright if you were CCW


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    My understanding is the ticket counters and baggage claim are NOT the terminal... the terminal and sterile area are the parts of the airport on the OTHER SIDE of the metal detectors...
    Thatís the way I see it and have observed it since the mid 80ís when I got my Florida CCL

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    That’s the way I see it and have observed it since the mid 80’s when I got my Florida CCL
    Here's a response to a similar question that Jon Gutmacher posted in his Blog fairly recently:


    Tuesday, May 6, 2008

    Airports and the CWP


    I was surprised today when an instructor who has been using my book asked whether a TSA official was correct in saying that the entire passenger terminal was considered part of the "sterile area" - and thus a CWP holder could not carry a firearm in any part of the terminal. I was surprised because of the two mistakes in the question. First -- the "sterile area" is a federal definition, and does not refer to the entire terminal -- but (in simplified terms) is used to refer to the area from the Xray machines on. However, the second error involved a misreading of Florida Statute 790.06(12), which makes it crystal clear that carry pursuant to a CWP excludes the entire passenger terminal -- not just the sterile area.

    In other words -- all portions of the "passenger terminal" are excluded from CWP carry. That should include the shops, the restaurants, etc.
    However, since parking areas are normally separate and not within the passenger terminal building -- it will still be legal for CWP carry in that area.

    So -- don't carry in an airport -- even with a CWP.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    Here's a response to a similar question that Jon Gutmacher posted in his Blog fairly recently:


    Tuesday, May 6, 2008

    Airports and the CWP


    I was surprised today when an instructor who has been using my book asked whether a TSA official was correct in saying that the entire passenger terminal was considered part of the "sterile area" - and thus a CWP holder could not carry a firearm in any part of the terminal. I was surprised because of the two mistakes in the question. First -- the "sterile area" is a federal definition, and does not refer to the entire terminal -- but (in simplified terms) is used to refer to the area from the Xray machines on. However, the second error involved a misreading of Florida Statute 790.06(12), which makes it crystal clear that carry pursuant to a CWP excludes the entire passenger terminal -- not just the sterile area.

    In other words -- all portions of the "passenger terminal" are excluded from CWP carry. That should include the shops, the restaurants, etc.
    However, since parking areas are normally separate and not within the passenger terminal building -- it will still be legal for CWP carry in that area.

    So -- don't carry in an airport -- even with a CWP.
    thanks David...

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    thanks David...
    If you promise not to tell anyone, I'll admit that for a lot of years I happily carried into the terminal because I had mis-read that portion of the statute.

    I guess what's "crystal clear" to an attorney isn't necessarily to us..... huh?!
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #21
    New Member Array Chesphoto's Avatar
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    Guess we are lucky in Phoenix, we can carry concealed (with a ccw permit) or open carry in our airport as long as we are outside the secure areas. One of the heads of the Phoenix Police Department that provides law enforcement for the airport even writes on the Arizona Open Carry forum.

    You can read the thread here: Can you OC at phoenix airport - Arizona - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum

    Take Care,
    Tom

  7. #22
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    At Orlando International

    There is a little known fact at the Orlando Airport, a free 40 minute grace period in the actual covered parking area.

    Terminal A, drive to the incoming flight portion of that facility, top level if you will, continue on through, almost to the outgoing ramp, on your left, exit into the parking area. It is signed, but quite a tight turn.

    Stop at the barrier, pick up a ticket at the dispenser, gate up, and enter.

    Forty minutes from the time on the ticket, to you exiting to pick up your visitor, or returning family, is free. Cell phones work well in that area also.

    Great idea, park, read a book, "I am here" off you go, little loop, back to pick up point. Glock 19 on belt, no muss no fuss.

  8. #23
    New Member Array niss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock30SF View Post
    (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport
    To me, I would read that as anywhere past the metal detectors, where you actually go to board the plane. I think the real issue is the wording, and the use of the word "terminal" instead of a defining line such as "Past the metal detectors". My coworker just looked up our local Pensacola airport and the map of the airport is called the "Terminal Layout", with the entire map being called the "Terminal Complex"

    I would say that is a real gray area that a better definition needs to be written. Before this line you are cool, but you better not cross this line.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    Here's a response to a similar question that Jon Gutmacher posted in his Blog fairly recently:


    Tuesday, May 6, 2008

    Airports and the CWP


    I was surprised today when an instructor who has been using my book asked whether a TSA official was correct in saying that the entire passenger terminal was considered part of the "sterile area" - and thus a CWP holder could not carry a firearm in any part of the terminal. I was surprised because of the two mistakes in the question. First -- the "sterile area" is a federal definition, and does not refer to the entire terminal -- but (in simplified terms) is used to refer to the area from the Xray machines on. However, the second error involved a misreading of Florida Statute 790.06(12), which makes it crystal clear that carry pursuant to a CWP excludes the entire passenger terminal -- not just the sterile area.

    In other words -- all portions of the "passenger terminal" are excluded from CWP carry. That should include the shops, the restaurants, etc.

    However, since parking areas are normally separate and not within the passenger terminal building -- it will still be legal for CWP carry in that area.

    So -- don't carry in an airport -- even with a CWP.
    Ladies and gentlemen;
    I think I'll go with Mr.Gutmacher's advise.
    Free advise from an attorney-PRICELESS
    " Keep On Packin' On The Bimah"

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niss View Post
    To me, I would read that as anywhere past the metal detectors, where you actually go to board the plane. I think the real issue is the wording, and the use of the word "terminal" instead of a defining line such as "Past the metal detectors". My coworker just looked up our local Pensacola airport and the map of the airport is called the "Terminal Layout", with the entire map being called the "Terminal Complex"

    I would say that is a real gray area that a better definition needs to be written. Before this line you are cool, but you better not cross this line.
    And I would say that you expose yourself to arrest if follow that logic. If you read the entirety of the section in question it becomes obvious that the "terminal" as the statute refers to, is the area where you check in. This is made obvious due to the exception that does NOT prohibit a person from bring a encased firearm into the terminal to be checked as baggage. No wiggle room there. The terminal is the front door to the joint.

    (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; ....redacted for convenience....; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    rolyat63
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    A gun in the hand is a million times more valuable than a cop on the phone!

    FL Concealed Weapon or Firearm Program

  11. #26
    Member Array socuban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NKMG19 View Post
    Just don't go anywhere past the sidewalk with your CCW and you will be fine. The good thing is that Ft. Lauderdale and West Palm has a cellphone waiting area and I just hang out there and wait for the "I'm at the curb" call. So I just drive around, pick up and leave.
    +1. I won't test Homeland security there, too much fire power

  12. #27
    New Member Array niss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    And I would say that you expose yourself to arrest if follow that logic. If you read the entirety of the section in question it becomes obvious that the "terminal" as the statute refers to, is the area where you check in. This is made obvious due to the exception that does NOT prohibit a person from bring a encased firearm into the terminal to be checked as baggage. No wiggle room there. The terminal is the front door to the joint.
    Based on what our local airport map is called, no I would not risk stepping foot into my airport with it on me. I just feel the use of the word "terminal" is far to vague. I have never heard the word terminal used to describe anything in an airport other than the area where you sit to wait to board the plane.

    I would rather see the law say "you may not bring a firearm other than one encased ready for shipping, past the doors into the airport building" If it said something along those lines, I don't feel we would even have a thread about the issue. Give the word "terminal" to 12 different lawyers and I am sure they will get 12 different definitions. I feel that is the real issue, and me being a single individual in that situation I know I would always loose, so best not to challenge it.

  13. #28
    Member Array glock45's Avatar
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    In order to test this, wave your gun in your hand while going in and ask " Hey, I have a gun, can I go in?" I'm sure they will let you know until what point it is OK....
    Now, on a more serious note. I would ask a LEO while NOT carrying... And to be completely safe... Either leave your gun in your car or do not go inside any area of the airport beyond the parking lot.

  14. #29
    Member Array akhimark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    The word AND makes me think the intent is to be past security.
    Otherwise it would say " the passenger terminal or sterile area of any airport."

    However, you won't find me testing this theory. Just dropping someone off, how would they know? They're more concerned with you leaving your vehicle unattended than carrying. O/C? No.
    If you want use logic (I know that's dangerous with a gubment agent), both conditions must be met for the statement to be true. If I'm in the terminal but not in the sterile area, only one of the conditions for a violation is true. As stated above, they should have used the word "OR" if they wanted you disarmed in the terminal. Although English is a difficult language and logic is not allowed in gubment, I don't plan to be the test case.

    As an aside, why did I have to study English if I am never going to England?

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