February 1st, 2006 09:44 PM
Question how much is too much?
I have a question for the forums members.
As I was breaking in my three new Kimbers and one Glock over a year ago I would take them all to range and shoot say 200 rounds each in about two hours. I did this about four times over three Months.
I was just really trying to get some shots fired and not try getting any good groups.
Well now I am trying to get fairly good groups firing quickly and I notice after about one hour it seems things start going south.
My question is just how much shooting is too much at one range visit?
Each gun has it's own difficulty level the Glock and the 3" 1911 really have a kick. The 4"&5" 1911s are not real hard kickers.
Still after about one and half hours my groups spread out.
I have cut it down to two guns each time I shoot but I get the same poor groups after the same times.
So how much is too much for good results each range session?
February 1st, 2006 09:47 PM
Depends on you ..
Some factors .. Caliber, Style of gun full-size or Subcompact.
kind of shape your in ?
Longer you shoot especially a big heavy gun quicker you grouping suffers
Also the more the gun kicks you faster you give out shoot for grouping first after that just shoot for fun
February 1st, 2006 09:54 PM
One of my guns is a Taurus PT111 Mil Pro 9mm. Rather heavy DAO. About 200 rounds is about my limit. My trigger finger gets tired/sore and my thumb gets sore from all the reloading. And those last few rounds are definitely less accurate than the earlier rounds.
February 1st, 2006 10:00 PM
HG I think - even if we might try and think otherwise - a sustained period of shooting, and large ammo quantities - some of the fine control does dissipate.
Grip is perhaps the prime factor - even a small change due to fatigue and the effect of that on trigger useage - heck - even arms get tired too!!
I find maybe 100 rounds in fairly quick succession is enough for me, before a useful break. I invariably decrease in accuracy rather than other way - tho that said - maybe first mag (or cyl) is a good ''warm-up'' then I hit max - but later tailing off a bit.
I would blame me long before I blamed the gun - put it that way!
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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February 1st, 2006 10:01 PM
Fatigue is a natural obstacle that everyone is prone to. If you don't get your "fill". Take a ten minute break and keep your arms resting. This may bring your groups back to a level you can accept.
The fatigue will mostly be in your shoulders because they are what holds your arms in the shooting position.
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February 1st, 2006 10:01 PM
Gotta agree with Bud. Alot depends on the shooter. I know by the end of all day shooting competition in August heat, my groups suffered. Usually I shoot for maybe an hour or so. And some of that is with .22's , so little recoil.
February 1st, 2006 10:03 PM
My opinion is take a break and let the pistols rest LOL , but when you hold your hand out and iyour fingers/hand/arm trimble well then ya done shot a bit too long and your straining yourself , shooting is an amazingly physical hobby , i would say shoot more often , and less rounds at a setting myself , get some snapcaps and do some dryfire drills at home between
February 1st, 2006 10:10 PM
I'll agree there. It all depends on the person and how much time it takes the individual to become tired and fatigued. Some may be able to shoot for a couple hours without any problems and having grouping that's pretty close from start to stop. I've fired 50 rounds and found myself pretty tired from it on some days while I've had others where I've put 200 rounds downrange in an hour and felt fine. It just depends on the person.
"You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.
<----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)
February 1st, 2006 10:43 PM
Muscle fatique. The muscles can only take so much of the weight for long periods of time, and the recoil (little or much) adds to the quickness of the fatique.
I don't think that a firearm, be it handgun or rifle, was designed for the user to continue to use it for long periods of time.
With my muscles continuing to go south on me, and now weighing a whooping 140lbs, my range sessions have gotten to the point to where it's more of a torture then it is for fun. Yet I know that I must continue to practice in this state so that if I'm in it, and getting weaker, then I know that I can handle the strain and the weight of the firearm and continue to fire at POA.
My opinion is that if you continue to fire on long periods of time, the muscle groups that you are using may/will become stronger. Like exercising, the more you do it, the longer you can maintain that level and advance.
I could be wrong through.
February 1st, 2006 10:47 PM
And to add to it all, in the real world, under the worst conditions, even real policemen don't have to fire 200 rounds out of a sidearm to get the job done... it's all decided by then.
I'm looking at my XD45 target pics where I tested the Wolf and SXT ammuntion and realized I shot them at the end of the 400+ rounds that day. No pain, didn't feel fatigue, but there you go.
February 1st, 2006 11:40 PM
<< i am beginning to see another rant coming on , more mussings lol let me give it a day or two to percolate and i may well inflict beyond my thoughts on how to select a carry gun .... but then i am a redneck and it is my job lol
February 1st, 2006 11:52 PM
A lot of factors have been mentioned. Another one IMHO is the type of range. If you're at one of those indoor ranges where everyone has their own lane and you can shoot as fast as you can load mags and change targets, you can wear yourself out. The extra noise of an indoor range is a factor as well. If you share an outdoor range with other shooters and have to stop periodically while someone checks their targets, etc., you'll tire a little less quickly.
Personally, I'll typically shoot 200 rounds per session, and occasionally go 300. The deciding factor for me is if my performance starts to deteriorate significantly, I am accomplishing nothing more than practicing mistakes. Usually, at that point I'll load half a mag or so and squeeze off that last few slowly and deliberately, so that I leave with my last few shots being "good." ["Good" being a relative term.]
I agree 100% with the idea that better results come from more frequent, but shorter, sessions as opposed to a marathon followed by inactivity. YMMV.
February 2nd, 2006 12:11 AM
I have noticed that when I go to the range that If i shoot more then 400 rounds without a Break that my Groups & my tactics ( Draw, Split Times & such go South, When I explained this to my local Instructor he advised me to train in 1/2 hour increments, Spend 1/2 hour on my draw & fire & my Group SIze, Then take a 15 or 20 minute break ( I generally stop & have a Soft Drink & B.S. with the Gunsmith , Then when I feel relaxed I go back out & work on other aspects , Drawing from cover, shooting from cover, Just standqard drill stuff. I do this about once a week & I will spend a good 3 or 4 hours at the range . Then go out to dinner with the guys that I shoot with,
I also try to stop in about every other day to shoot off about 50 rounds just to blow of steam plus it keeps me relaxed, MY wife Says I get real stressed if I havent been to the range in a couple weeks.
My guess is it is good therapy , Hope this helps.
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.
February 2nd, 2006 10:33 AM
Thank's to everyone who responded. You have given me many ideas as to why my target groups have widened after shooting many rounds.
Again thank's for taking the time to give me this Info.
February 2nd, 2006 11:34 AM
When I was on the 9th ID Pistol team we would shoot every single day Mon-Fri at least 400 rds a day. But I was about 23 years old.
These days, if I'm on a target range my limit is about 200 rds. OTOH, if I'm shooting IDPA, I can go 400 rds without a problem. The key is the distractor of moving and thinking tactically to solve the scenario problem. It's sort of like the line from my favorite western, Butch Cassidy & The Sundance Kid....where the kid was told to go away when he applied for an honest job and he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when he tried to aim and shoot range style. But when he said: Can I move? I'm better when I move. and proceeds to draw and dance a poker chip at thirty feet.....Add to that the fact that IDPA "accuracy" is different than shooting for bullseye score.
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
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