Carry in a bowling alley

Carry in a bowling alley

This is a discussion on Carry in a bowling alley within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As part of a part time job, I work as a pit boss in a charity poker room in Michigan. I'm going to get my ...

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Thread: Carry in a bowling alley

  1. #1
    Member Array ellswj's Avatar
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    Carry in a bowling alley

    As part of a part time job, I work as a pit boss in a charity poker room in Michigan. I'm going to get my CPL this weekend. My question is, I work inside a bowling alley at the poker room/bar, Mi law is a little Grey as to whether it is legal or not. Mich law states you cant carry anywhere where open liqueur makes up %50 of their profits. That's where it gets a little gray, is it considered a bar or a bowling alley. Im confused, any insight would be greatly appreciated,.Thanks


    Jarrad


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Carrying in a bowling alley?

    Good idea! Then you can just shoot the pins. No more heavy lifting. :)

    Seriously, here is the exact law, I think you might find it pleasing:

    Michigan Legislature

    (d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

  3. #3
    Member Array ellswj's Avatar
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    Im not technically an employee, Im a volunteer, although I get paid, the bowling alley is not who I volunteer for, it is a separate company. so it all sounds good but what about in a court of law

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    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Subcontractors are treated as employees.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

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    Member Array Shadow662's Avatar
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    Couple bowling alleys here in Saginaw, MI have a bowling alley and a bar. The bar being in a diffrent room then the bowling alley. But still in the same building. So I would say since they Bar part of the building is a bar and most of its income comes from selling alchol and the bowling alley part is for bowling. Then I would say no you can't carry because even tho the bar and bowling alley are connected the profits from the bar and bowling alley are diffrent. But can still be in the bowling alley part. If in doubt contact a local PD or state police they will tell you.

  6. #6
    Member Array ellswj's Avatar
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    Talking

    I forgot to mention my boss will be attending my CPL class with me.

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    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    IANAL, so take this as it comes (advice from some guy on the internet) .

    First, it's not profits, it's "primary source of income of the business". So unless the bar is a separate business, I'd conclude it safe to say they get the majority of their income from bowling, not alcohol. Of course we can't be certain (so neither can the authorities). Unless the owner is asked (or posts the rare 51% signs made available by the liquor control commission-I've not seen one yet-), there is no way to be certain. Michigan law does not have provisions for separating areas of a business into "bar" and "non bar" areas as some States like Florida do. Here, it's all or nothing.

    One other aspect to be considered though. Casino's are also listed as a "no carry" zone. I don't know whether your (presumably converted part time?) charity poker room is considered as such (though I doubt it). Also don't know if employees of casino's are exempt (in the event it is considered such). Two more things worth checking out.

    Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners (MCRGO) has a FAQ with an "ask a lawyer" section. It'd be worth it to get an opinion there IMHO.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    As much as it pains me to say this, I think I would take the attitude that if there is any doubt, don't carry. And I say that for several reasons. 1) I don't want to lose my permit. 2) I don't want to lose my weapon (even if it is temporary). 3) I don't want to be a test case. 4) It appears that LEO attitudes are slowly changing regarding CCL's. I don't want unnecessarily do go out of my way to antagonize the LEO community. Sometimes it's best to pick your battles so that you win the war.

    You might ask an attorney.

    YMMV, and void where prohibited.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    Member Array Glock23MI's Avatar
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    I would just contact your local PD and ask them straight out. It sounds like you should be in the clear since it's likely a bowling alley w/ a bar (as opposed to a bar w/ 1 lane for bowling) AND you should still fall under the "employee" clause even as a volunteer. A LEO would probably be more than happy to chat with you about this, let you know what's 100% legal.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock23MI View Post
    I would just contact your local PD and ask them straight out. It sounds like you should be in the clear since it's likely a bowling alley w/ a bar (as opposed to a bar w/ 1 lane for bowling) AND you should still fall under the "employee" clause even as a volunteer. A LEO would probably be more than happy to chat with you about this, let you know what's 100% legal.
    I don't know about the PD as they often mis-understand or mis-apply statutes as they apply to private carry of firearms. There is a thread running now about a guy named Dan in VA who was falsely arrested. The DAs office would be a better place to look for answers because if the LEO says it is ok (then you get involved in a situation) if the PD is wrong you are still going to be prosecuted by the DA. On the other hand the PD could easily say no (erring on the side of caution) you can't carry and be wrong so you go unarmed when you don't have to be unarmed. IANAL so YMMV


    Here is the link to Dan Moore thread.
    Last edited by bbqgrill; February 11th, 2009 at 09:51 AM. Reason: add link
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

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  11. #11
    Member Array ellswj's Avatar
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    I'll have to do some research. I sure hope Im allowed, wehave apretty heavy cash flow through there, at times 15000 in cash and not reallyany physical security. Just cameras, and thats no good when your already dead.

  12. #12
    Member Array slowmo44's Avatar
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    Check Michigan Gun Owners and post this in the "Legal Eagle: section. There is a gun friendly Atty there who regularly answers questions. For the record, I bowl 3-4 times per week, and carry in the bowling alley regularly. My concern is not actually the inside of the bowling alley, but walking in the parking lot as you leave when people are aware that you may have money (at some of the leagues, it is not unusual to walk out with 1-2k). Most league bowlers wouldn't likely bother you, but there are always deadbeats hanging around at the end of the night. I know for a fact that at one bowling alley I frequent that at least 2 or 3 people that work there carry, and are aware that I carry ( we took CPL classes together). I do make it a point to stay out of the bar area.

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