ccw = threatened? - Page 2

ccw = threatened?

This is a discussion on ccw = threatened? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Perhaps he did it as a gentle reminder, that he too is armed, lest you be one of the .00000000000000000000000000001 percent of CCW holders who ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array BushidoMarine's Avatar
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    Perhaps he did it as a gentle reminder, that he too is armed, lest you be one of the .00000000000000000000000000001 percent of CCW holders who truly is a Bad Guy. As much as we loathe their existence, there *are* going to be a (thankfully miniscule) few criminally inclined individuals who pass all the checks and are legally carrying. Perhaps he did it thinking something along the lines of, "I'm sure you're most likely one of the Good Guys, but just on the microscopic chance you're not...(casually unsnaps holster)...just remember, I'm armed, too, and I WILL be ending my shift without any extra holes in me!"
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
    - Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC


  2. #17
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    I tell you what, if I were a cop, pulling over a car, esp. at night, I'd be anything but relaxed, and I sure wouldn't want my gun strapped down.

    A cop has no idea what he may be walking into. We have seen numerous times where a cop has been injured or killed in a "routine" stop.

    "We" may not be a danger to the cop, but the guy hidden in the back seat threatening to shoot us if we "tell" just might be a danger.

  3. #18
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    It probably just dawned on him that he had not unsnapped it earlier.
    Once he saw your License To Carry...seeing it "Tripped The Gun Trigger" & then he just unsnapped his retention strap as force of habit.
    Which BTW he should have already done earlier...before approaching your vehicle...regardless of who you were.
    I sure would not take it personally.
    I could see how it would seem odd to you though.
    Especially since WE are the least likely of all citizens to ever cause him any sort of problems.
    In PA we also are not required to notify.
    Now that I am older & wiser...I would only notify verbally as a common courtesy if I were asked to exit my vehicle & then I would absolutely calmly keep both hands in plain view & then wait for further instructions from the LEO...and then slowly follow those exact instructions. Just my opinion (& the opinion of a few other LEOs) on that.
    BTW I have talked to several LEOs in my area (including one Alleg Cnty Sheriff Dep & 1 State) & (so far) that is how they would prefer it.
    On the evening of the 15th I have a meeting w/ our local Police Chief & I'll ask him about it & then post his opinion.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Natural,

    One thing to keep in mind also, If I read it right, he unsnapped the strap before running your liscense through the system. However unlikley, your I.D. could have been fake or you could have even reciently been in trouble and had your permit revoked. Their is even the highly unlikleyhood of that evil twin brother using your I.D. I actually served on a Grand Jury where that happend and when the GG failed to show up for court and was arrested, it was figured out and we got the request to send the BG to court. ( He went)

    My first encounter with LE while carrieng happend just a couple of weeks ago, The state trooper unsnapped his strap on the way to the car. I told him I had a gun and a permit (with hands on the wheel) before undoing my seatbelt, and especially before reaching anywhere in the car. He has a tough job and I didn't want to give him any reason to be suspecious. Here in VA, a run of our liscense has a note which tells the officer if you do or do not have a CCW. I also wanted to be upfront and show I wasn't hiding anything. The whole stop when fine, and we both went home.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Unhappy Young Cops v Experienced Cops....

    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead79
    The way you wrote it, I thought he unsnapped in humor. Put yourself in his shoes. If I was an LEO, I'd have likely done the same thing.

    Rocky told about himself getting stopped once. They made him unload his gun and mag and place it all on the dash. At least he didn't disarm you. Some LEOs in some states will disarm you, just precautionary. I think getting anyone in a traffic stop to start playing with their gun is less safe than letting you keep it holstered. It's not always easy to get to your gun when you're sitting in your car, buckled up. If he has you take it out and "clear" it, it would be much easier for one to shoot the LEO.
    I don't mind when LEO's show good training and act from condition yellow maybe even condition orange in certain situations. Florida is a must notify state. Since I first got my FL permit in 1987, I have had the occasion to make this "notification" just about four times. Once was a situation like czman2006 where he asked me what I was carrying and how, and when I replied: Sig P245 IWB strongside hip he basically laughed and let me go. The other two just said to keep my hands where they could see them and make no sudden moves and it'd be cool. Note that these were OLD patrol lobos who'd prolly seen it all several times.

    But this one time, I was pulled over at an "insurance" (read DWI) checkpoint. I notified this young pup that I was carrying and suddenly I'm staring into the muzzle of a Glock 17 and his finger is on the trigger! That didn't worry me as much as the amount he was shaking and how his voice quavered when he commanded me to exit the car, lock my fingers behind my neck and walk backwards to him. Instructions I followed very carefully. All the while I could hear his older partner screaming at him. The FNG drew my Sig and cleared it (thank God he got that right, I had my doubts) and then ran the numbers several times....and his partner apologized to me and said the FNG was one reason he was retiring soon....and when the kid got no hits he proceeded to grill me on exactly WHY I felt the "need" to carry a gun....When he gave me an opening to speak...I DID.

    20 min later I'm on my way and the kid is still shaking with anger at my response, but his training officer told him if he wanted to become a real cop, he'd better sit down and STFU. The older guy wound up coming out to the range and shooting with my club which was at that time an IPSC club. This was long before IDPA.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead79

    Rocky told about himself getting stopped once.
    Nope, not me. I was pulled over once for suspected armed robbery, but luckily I worked the same dept as the officer , and he reconized me as he approached my car.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    First off, no traffic stop is routine. Let's get that cleared up first and foremost.

    Second, even if you have a permit, it doesn't mean that you will never turn on a cop. He doesn't know if you will and they treat everyone as if they are armed and willing to kill. Knowing you are armed, permit or not, will escalate the thoughts in his mind. Some not as much. He doesn't know you at all. You give him your permit and he doesn't know if it is actual or fake until he verifies it.

    Some cops take a chance and let their guard down when they are dealing with a permit holder.

    Best thing to do is not to drive like an idiot and get pulled over in the first place. Then you wouldn't have problems like this.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  8. #23
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    during a routine traffic stop
    Doesn't sound like a bad driving deal necessarily!!
    Best thing to do is not to drive like an idiot and get pulled over in the first place. Then you wouldn't have problems like this.
    That's a bit harsh!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    I always tell the LEO that I'm armed and I don't have to.
    Most thank me and in a few minutes we're talking guns. None has ever taken my weapon during the stop.
    Got a few warnings but never got the ticket.

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

  10. #25
    Member Array Dingle1911's Avatar
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    I live in a must notify state. I have never been stopped, but I think that I would notify the officer while keeping my hands in full view (ie. on the steering wheel) and then ask for further instructions. I also would feel more comfortable with an officer removing my weapon from my holster. I think I would rather have my hands locked behind my head and just let the officer remove my weapon rather than me reaching for it expecially if I am wearing my retention holster that you have to have a proper grip on the gun to reach the unlock button.

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Best thing to do is not to drive like an idiot and get pulled over in the first place. Then you wouldn't have problems like this.
    I was sitting at a stop light when the State Trooper noticed my tags were expired.

    Oops, yeah it was on the fridge with a stack of other bills.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  12. #27
    Member Array vzwnnj's Avatar
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    I guess i can understand where the officer was coming from...once he KNEW you had a gun, he probably felt it necessary to be ready for anything, regardless of what the ccw might infer. Sounds like it was only a precautionary move...and I can certainly understand that

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
    Best thing to do is not to drive like an idiot and get pulled over in the first place. Then you wouldn't have problems like this.
    Thats Pretty harsh ..

    Ya cant tell me you have been pulled over for no other reason than just because? I've been pulled over plenty of times in a commercial van with a big bill board just to check insurance .. Thats a BS stop if i've ever heard one

  14. #29
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    Another PA guy here

    I am not required to notify an officer that I have a CCW permit ,
    BUT , I must answer truthfully if asked if I have a Firearm.

    My Take - No ASK , NO TELL
    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
    {Bernhard Goetz}

  15. #30
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    insecure

    Bottom line most law enforcement don't have the trigger time to feel confident to carry. as time goes by and more military filter in the LEO ranks it will change I harass my local guys that I and more down range in a month than they are in a year

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