February 9th, 2006 01:13 PM
The Retention Strap
I know that it has become quite common for LEOs (all across the country) to unsnap the holster retention snap before approaching vehicles during stops.
I cannot debate the common sense of it or the exact rationale only that it is being done these days and often.
Originally Posted by NaturalSelection
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
February 9th, 2006 01:45 PM
I normally do not respond to these types of threads because I do not want to appear bias but there are a few things to consider that have not been mentioned. There is a very real possibility that the credentials being handed to me during a traffic stop are fake and confirmation of validity is obtained (to a certain degree) via dispatch. The second is a cultural/political background that particular officer is immersed in. By in large most officers I have worked with believe very strongly in the right of persons to protect themselves by what ever means possible, but not all of us feel the same way!
In closing, I will pass on an incident that occurred several years ago to demonstrate my point. My X chief despised the military (most of us were vets), the NRA (most of us were members), and the private ownership of weapons (most of us where the biggest gun whores on the planet), but he was a desk jockey that could not harass good people from his office. I on the other hand made a traffic stop on a local driver and in the process learned the driver had a loaded browning HP under his seat and no permit. After running the serial number of the BHP I returned it field striped and told the guy to get a permit before he is nailed. He worked nights and traveled through some crappy areas so I fully understood why he was packing and made no bones about it.
February 9th, 2006 02:01 PM
Think of it as an "employee discount" or fringe benefit. I also know some officers who have written their own chief for speeding. I have also seen an officer pull a car over, walk up to the window, and tell them exactly, "Slow down. This isn't a race track. Just get there in one piece." Then walk back to the squad car and drive off.
Originally Posted by Kel-Tec2006
The above the law comment is absurd and makes me laugh everytime I hear it. Ditto for the "double standard" remark. So, when you drive past a police officer and you are traveling over the speed limit, he picks his head up and looks at the radar and looks back down, are you above the law then. No he is giving you a courtesy buffer. Have you ever just gotten a verbal warning when you could have gotten a citation? Did the officer write your for 1-10mph over instead of 11-19 over? Are you above the law then?
One who is not in the brotherhood will never understand the brotherhood. Plain and simple. Chances are also that the officer knows the other officer and isn't some stranger with a fancy gun and a CCW permit. It is a trust issue. Some would trust a fellow officer more than a law abiding citizen. Just the cold, hard fact.
Your comment about the CCW holder vs cop turning bad is a little off. Comparing a very narrow action (CCW with illegal use of firearm) versus a very broad action (a cop who used his/her power to abuse or kill) is an unfair comparison to try to make a point. By the way, do you have those stats on file? Enlighten us.
February 9th, 2006 04:45 PM
Oh, I forgot to speak on the ticket issue. The couple of times I have been stopped since becoming an officer I received a summons and paid the fine without question. The reason I was stopped in both cases was speeding and I was in fact speeding! Therefore, the only person to blame was the cat looking back at me in the rear view. In fact, I have written a few fellow officers over the years and base my decision on the action and not the person.
If you really want to know what will piss me off in a heart beat it is PO’s that try to smoke me with credentials and a "I do not give a dam attitude" about responsible driving. Woman who dam near (and have) exposed themselves along with a generous heaping of flirtation trying to get a break. The occasional wise ass jacking there jaw on the celly, driving way to dam fast, weaving through traffic and asking me if I don't have anything better to do when I stop them.
If you want some free advice that might get you a break during a traffic stop, try the following. When you know you are getting stopped pull over to the shoulder ASAP and turn on your interior light if dark, get your paperwork out and ready, keep your paws in plain view (I like to see people with there hands on the wheel), and when you get asked why you where stopped tell that officer the truth if you where hauling ass and do not make up silly excuses!
February 9th, 2006 05:15 PM
Lets not turn this into a personal issues and lets lay off the Cop bashing they have there job to do same as i do or you do...
I have been let off with a warning just because and also been stop as above for no reason ...
So lets get back to the original posters Question and stop heading down the slipper slope of Flame war
February 9th, 2006 07:12 PM
To address the original post, only the LEO knows why he chose to pop his retention snap at that point. Did he fear you? Only he knows. Was it a routine thing he does before turning his back to walk back to his car? Only he knows. Would I worry about it? Nope. Are you one of the good guys? I'm sure you are, but the LEO doesn't know that.
A certain percentage of any population is bad news. Military, LEOs, CCW holders, priests, truck drivers, machinists, doctors, nurses you name it. Why was it a requirement for me to lock my wall locker in the military? Thinking back to my military days, I'm not so sure I'd have been real comfortable if some civilians showed up for a patrol. However, if some guys from another unit showed up, I'm sure I'd be more comfortable. Knowledge of their training, and the fact that we are members of the same organization brings a certain brotherhood. I think you'll find this in many professions.
P.S. The status of your CHP is displayed with your license plate registration information in Virginia. Any vehicle registered in a CHP holder's name will show the CHP status if the LEO looks for it. It's on page two near the bottom. The LEOs I talked to usually don't look. YMMV.
February 9th, 2006 10:59 PM
Deleted as off topic, offensive to our good LEO forum members and highly inflammatory.
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February 10th, 2006 12:43 AM
1952 - 2006
I think Kel-Tec as do the other moderators, that you have gone into an area that we care not to discuss on this forum. Please keep your posts on topic. We do not tolerate flaming or bashing of anyone. If you have an attitude problem, please check it at the door.
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February 10th, 2006 12:58 AM
I agree completely. Way back when, if I pulled someone over and they started making excuses, they did get a citation. An acknowledgement of the truth like "yeah, I guess I wasn't watching my speed", would give them the best chance to avoid a ticket.
Originally Posted by blacksan
Also, I will hold my comments about flaming, since the moderators all made it pretty clear already. But it would be useful to visit the link QKShooter provided....
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
February 10th, 2006 07:59 PM
Been on both ends of the spectrum here.
I was stopped in my car once for speed and handed my license, ins, and CHL. LEO looked at it, asked if I was carrying, then told me to slow down and to have a nice day. LEO didn't seem to mind that I was armed at all.
Another time I was stopped at a gas station in The Hill Country in TX with a group of friends on sportbikes and was approached by a local LEO. He carded all of us (about 15 bikes). Got to me, I gave him all my documents. He saw the CHL, stepped back, put hand on Glock, and asked me if I was armed. Informed him that I was and he immediately went to "Red". Put me on the wall, patted and disarmed me. Ran my license, gave me and all my friends a tongue lashing about riding too fast, then let us go. Took about 45 minutes. Had to remind him that he needed to return my P99. Reluctantly did so and told us to get out of town.
Needless to say, most of the guys I was riding with that day were upset that the "stop" took so long and were also surprised that I was armed. Some of those guys haven't ridden with me since .
Just goes to show that LEOs look at us in very different lights.
"Life's tough......It's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
February 11th, 2006 03:05 AM
even if i was speeding, i think you somehow missed the point in my post. for clarity, i wasnt complaining about being pulled over. i deserved to be pulled over as i was clearly in the wrong. i certainly hold no animosity towards the officer for doing his job. i just didnt understand why the ccw in itself would send up red flags.
Originally Posted by freakshow10mm
no apologies necessary, but thank you just the same.
in fact, thanks to everyone who responded. i never expected the conversation to take some of the turns it took, but thats how things go on the internet. i did learn from this conversation, and overall i feel that good and bad, it was beneficial.
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