My evening.. A bit long winded..

This is a discussion on My evening.. A bit long winded.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sometimes you gotta handle things yourself. Doing so may be "wrong" but everybody has to make their own decisions. Wonder if you could fault the ...

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Thread: My evening.. A bit long winded..

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Sometimes you gotta handle things yourself. Doing so may be "wrong" but everybody has to make their own decisions. Wonder if you could fault the PD for blowing you off if the SHTF. At least you didn't go waving a gun in their faces, although I might have mentioned to them that some people are capable of handling a couple of punks up to no good and let them figure it out.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    So, just what did you want the police to do?
    Check it out. Have a chat. You know, police stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    I was followed a few months ago and called the general phone# for my local PD. They instructed me to not bring them to the PD which is attached to the Court building. I was able to see and describe the occupants and the vehicle and within 6 blocks making a zig-zag pattern through the neighborhood, the PD was right behind them with lights flashing. After they were stopped I proceed to the PD to complete a witness statement for their investigation. Had this occured after court hours I would expect they may have instructed me to drive to the PD if they weren't able to get a car to where I was.
    Outstanding response. Remind me if I ever move, to move where you live. :-)

    I do understand their resources may have been tied up on higher priority calls, but what came across was "not our problem".

    Now if I was cynical, I might think the response was different for males and for female callers.

    -john

  4. #33
    Member Array Evil Drew M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    I said what's it going to take to get a cop to do his job, he says when a crime is committed he'll get a police officer over to me right away.
    Contrary to popular belief - it isn't the Police's job to protect us. It is their job to ENFORCE LAWS. Until a law has been broken they really can't do anything.

    Further - their duty is to society as a whole, not to us as individuals. THIS is why it is OUR duty to protect ourselves and to stand up for our right to do so when stuffed shirts decide it is better that we don't be afforded the right to do so.

    I am someone who is VERY pro-Police. My feeling is that they do one of the crappiest jobs out there for very little money and I don't blame them for much of what they do, given what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

    With that said I understand that many people have a mis-conception of the duty of a Police department. It is this mis-conception that not only perpetuates much of the animosity towards LEO but also perpetuates much of the mis-guided anti-gun banter that the Lemmings of our society buy into.

    In the end - no one is legally or morally obligated to protect us and our property on an individual level. That is OUR duty.
    Last edited by Bumper; February 22nd, 2009 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Strike two

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    While I understand that to be ultimately true (and why I carry), you would hope that police embody the *intent* to protect (and, yes, I'm very pro-Police as well).

    -john

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array orangevol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    our local shop has bumper stickers and a billboard on the highway..


    Man...that is one "seedy" looking cop!!!

    Next time...follow instructions and drive to the Police Station, you're lucky you did not get into a shootout when you became the agressor and approached their car. Hindsight really is 20/20.

  7. #36
    Member Array Evil Drew M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    While I understand that to be ultimately true (and why I carry), you would hope that police embody the *intent* to protect (and, yes, I'm very pro-Police as well).

    -john
    And in a lot of cases they do - but in jurisdictions where they are very active, under-staffed, etc the manpower may very well be utilized to dealing with actual crimes.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Prevent, avoid, de-escalate, evade...

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array mi2az's Avatar
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    I look at it this way, when you told the police and they blew it off, and if you had to shoot those teens later, it would be on record that you tried to prevent something happening but the police dropped the ball.
    "When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."

    --Thomas Jefferson --

  10. #39
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    I wish I could emphatically say I would have done things differently but I'm a bit too confrontational for my own good. Maybe it's also being a big guy with a shaved head?

    It doesn't sound like it would do much good but maybe a visit to the Police Station to talk to someone about policy when a business owner is being followed like you were might actually help. I would like to think it's a man power issue and not complacency on their part.

    In my area, a unit would have been dispatched to do a stop and FI (Field Investigation) the occupants of the vehicle. That's our procedure. We foolishly believe in Crime Prevention! Go figure.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    Good Job and I hope they had a good night trying to clean themselves up.
    XD .45, Glock 23, Mossberg 590A, M&P 15 Rossi 641, RIA 1911


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  12. #41
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Drew M View Post
    Contrary to popular belief - it isn't the Police's job to protect us. It is their job to ENFORCE LAWS. Until a law has been broken they really can't do anything.

    Further - their duty is to society as a whole, not to us as individuals. THIS is why it is OUR duty to protect ourselves and to stand up for our right to do so when stuffed shirts decide it is better that we don't be afforded the right to do so.

    I am someone who is VERY pro-Police. My feeling is that they do one of the doo-doo-ish (Fixed to unwad some panties) jobs out there for very little money and I don't blame them for much of what they do, given what they have to deal with on a daily basis.

    With that said I understand that many people have a mis-conception of the duty of a Police department. It is this mis-conception that not only perpetuates much of the animosity towards LEO but also perpetuates much of the mis-guided anti-gun banter that the Lemmings of our society buy into.

    In the end - no one is legally or morally obligated to protect us and our property on an individual level. That is OUR duty.
    I'm pretty pro-cop, too, but "society" is made up of individuals. If I THINK someone is breaking into MY house (not society's as a whole), I expect a cop to show up. I have no evidence of a crime being committed nor do they, but I pay taxes so someone will show up.

    I live in a fairly high-crime city, yet I still see cops wasting time on a regular basis. Mind you, I don't care about that. However, I don't want to hear "we're too busy" when I call. I know that ain't the case. Heck, one of my facebook friends is a city cop and he freakin' posts to his page from his blackberry while ON DUTY. He ain't too busy.

    As far as low pay, that's a nice canard floated by increasingly powerful police unions. The pay is much higher than people think. Lots of cops make over six figures in CA, NY, and other states when overtime is factored in. Don't even get me started on the retirement packages.

    Anyway, I like cops and appreciate what they do. I'm not starting a flame war and won't engage in one, but I expect them to protect and serve and do so honorably.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    To the OP.... I've had something almost the same happen to me, only I stopped at someone else's house..... LOL. I decided to hell with this and went out, got in the car... headed down the street , did a quick U-turn and was right behind them (as they sat on the side with lights off, etc. a couple houses down). Got the tag number.

    They took off like a bat out of hell................

    The police arrived, did a check on the tag, and the person who owned it had a RAP sheet longer than my arm. .... mostly for armed robberies.

    The Police went and paid them a visit then.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    While I agree that you made a few mistakes, I have no criticism for you, for 1) You already know your mistakes, and are addressing them 2) I think that you had great situational awareness realizing that you were being followed, and not taking these dirtbags to your family, and finally 3) It's just too darn easy for me to criticise your actions, as I'm kicking back in my recliner and reading the board. I wasn't in your position, and quite frankly, I would be thrilled if those were the only mistakes I made in that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    So, just what did you want the police to do?
    Well, Sixto, from MY view, this is the case of a store manager, not only being followed, but those behind him clearly waited for him in the parking lot. To me, these are pretty darn good indications that at best they were planning on robbing him, at worst they were planning a home invasion. Given that, I would expect the police to handle the call only a few notches below a "Man with a gun" call, and send a car to investigate, not just blow the guy off. Yes, I understand that the police have no duty to protect us, at least according to the courts. But I believe that checking this out would certainly be more important, and more in line with their duty, than running radar or setting up a prostitution sting (gee, no crime has already been committed in those cases- they make a proactive attempt to cut down on crime). And in this case, there certainly appears to be every indication that a crime is actively being planned. Nice that they could spare someone to come talk to you the next day- I'm just glad that they weren't sending someone to take a report of your murder. And please, I don't want anyone to think that I don't respect our law enforcement officers. I hold them in the highest esteem. Sometimes though, things are mishandled, regardless who you are, and I believe that this was the case here.

    And MrEarp, I'm glad that you don't make night deposits. Around 34 years ago, I was the assistant manager of an Arby's in Richmond VA. My boss at the time was a complete jerk. I wouldn't leave from at that time the busiest store in the area until 2:30-3:00 AM on weekends. But that moron made me do night deposits. Once I was made manager of a store of my own, I stopped night deposits. That's what the safe is for. I could make the deposit first thing in the morning before opening. Much safer, in my opinion.

  15. #44
    Member Array theghostrider's Avatar
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    I’m not going to pile on with all the mistakes you made. You know what went wrong, and are taking measures to correct that, so there’s no sense bringing it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post



    Mistakes are ok, as long as we learn from them. I have definetly learned from mine.

    Some changes that will be made starting today:

    - 2 people in the store at all times. (we used to send someone out to go pick up dinner / run to the bank / run errands, this will be done when the store is closed or we'll get someone else to do it. )

    - We are paying to send our employee through the MI CPL process so he will have one also. We may even help with the purchase of his firearm if he cannot afford it.
    I’d come work for you for that! I’ve been working for my company for 11 years now, and it’s never even come up (except the time he told me “as long as it’s legal”).
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    - The store will not be closed if anyone is sitting in the parking lot.

    - No more woop's I forgot this. We've done this one ALOT, the store is our second home. Its not uncommon for one of us to stop up here when we are closed. Or pick stuff up for a regular customer off hours. This will stop as of today.
    Actually, while it’s not so good to be alone, the fact that someone is coming and going at odd hours makes it harder for them to case the place.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post

    - We already do not do night time deposits and will continue this. Deposits can wait until the next day.

    - We have identified a few indirect routes home. We both live within a 2 block radius of the business so it's just smart to add a few extra turn's before we go home.

    - Night time guy will go to the car first, then we will do the final alarm / setting of the alarm with him being able to provide assistance from the car. We will all leave the lot at the same time.

    - I'm considering transitioning from my pants pocket to my coat pocket before leaving. This would give me much easier access to it if I needed it.
    You might try appendix carry. I’ve found that it’s not bad for driving to carry at 1300 to 1400.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post

    Did I miss anything?
    Don’t t get into set paterns. Change things up a lot, and make sure the parking lot has sufficient lighting.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post

    I'm waiting for a police supervisor to show up and to hopefully take a report. I called this morning and requested them to send someone over to chat.

    Just better to be safe then sorry.
    I think it’s a good idea to follow up with the police. That will be a good time to air your concerns of how the dispatcher handled the call. It might be a procedural thing, or it might have been a call made at a personal level.

    I live in that city, and I have also had a couple times when I thought I was being followed. In order to keep from getting caught up in the emotions of such times, I’ve set up a personal procedure to follow in such an event. If I don’t loose them after so many turns, then it’s to the police station while I call dispatch to report the incident. I realize they may not be able to do much for me, but I want it on record in case something bad should happen.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Ok, the police are not required to protect me, but if I try to handle something myself I am the provocateur?

    Catch 22 anyone?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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