My evening.. A bit long winded..
This is a discussion on My evening.. A bit long winded.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Its not a catch 22. Its how you handle the problem. You are the same guys that whine and cry because you got stopped by ...
February 22nd, 2009 01:57 AM
Its not a catch 22. Its how you handle the problem. You are the same guys that whine and cry because you got stopped by a proactive policeman, but when its you that wants something done, its OK for the other guy to get stopped for an investigative stop. It cant be both ways. Thats my point.
Now, I agree with it being the right thing to do (the police stopping, FIRing etc) but who knows what else was going on else where etc. I wish I had someway of illustrating how many garbage "crying wolf" type of calls like this a PD gets, I can see why this one might have been blown off. Just look at some of the threads here sometimes for examples of this.
Now before anybody gets bent on what I just said, I'm not saying the OP is crying wolf, I'm just using it as an example.
February 22nd, 2009 10:03 AM
Sometines it is a Catch22. What happens from the call to the Law Enforcement depends on a LOT of factors. 1. How you come across in your call in the first place. The cop shop gets a whole spectrum of good and accurate reporting citizens and some really goofy ones. I know, since I have been on the receiving end of thousands of calls in years gone by. 2. It does depend a lot on what is going on elsewhere in the area as to what/who is able to respond to your call. It can go from nothing to hectic overload, ie;"to .roll eveything you've got" in a flash. 3. Varies a lot from station and department as to what they do and do not respond to, after the dispatcher has done their interpretation/analysis of the call. That being said, there are some excellent dispatchers and some that are P-poor, and the same thing can be said as far as the admin and street officers as well. 4. Some dispatchers would have found a cruiser close by and had you drive by the cruiser so they could stop your stalker. Bear in mind that this takes Time.....more that you think, to accurately get a description of your vehicle, and your present location and if you and the dispatcher are familiar enough with the area to get all of that done. Meanwhile, are the potential perps still following you? A lot of these punks are very street wise, and can 'smell' a set up a mile away. 5. There are sooo many variables that come into play here that you still need to realize anything can happen or not. What do they say?? Your Milleage May Vary.
February 22nd, 2009 11:00 AM
Everyone hears about the 911 calls due to a bungled order in the Burger King drive through. I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, a PD blows off a 911 call at its own risk.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
Had the OP gone home like the officer advised and his whole family killed by home invaders following him, I don't think the public (you know, the taxpayers that pay the LEO salaries) would've bought "we thought it was a bogus call" as an excuse.
While I'm sure there are people on here who complain about random stops, I'd refrain from saying "you guys are the same ones yada yada yada" unless you can point to a specific poster on this thread being contradictory. We don't like it when anti-gunners paint us all with a broad brush and we shouldn't do it to each other.
February 22nd, 2009 12:11 PM
Someone else already mentioned it, but I wonder how it would look for something to have happened to this guy, then word got out that he tried to ask for assistance? I bet somebody would be in deep doo doo.
If they were overewhelmed with other calls, doesn't sound like the dispatcher meant that.
And as someone else pointed out, police are often making good money. I know one that makes more than his wife, and she is a CPA at a decent size firm.
Anywho...that's my crappy .02
Smith & Wesson M&P9c
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February 22nd, 2009 02:27 PM
What about all that "Protect and Serve" collateral on their vehicles, websites, posters, etc., eh? Hard to overlook that.
Contrary to popular belief - it isn't the Police's job to protect us. It is their job to ENFORCE LAWS. Until a law has been broken they really can't do anything.
This is just like Healthcare - it is better/easier/cheaper to PREVENT than it is to retroactively TREAT afterwards. Maybe that's a big part of the problem. If the LE didn't wait until after the crime occurred, perhaps more crimes would be averted (heaven forbid), less people would enter the 'criminal' class, less people would be incarcerated.
This isn't dissing the LEO's here, I think it's more of the fact that (some) attorneys have made a real mess of this country. LE's hands are tied even moreso than ours.
Given that, I also have to give "big up's" to my local LE's for their proactive policy - here is a clip from their website:
So, I guess it's a matter of local policy.
You are encouraged to not hesitate contacting the Police Department for anything that appears to be suspicious, unusual or unsafe at your residence, neighborhood or anywhere in the Town.
February 22nd, 2009 02:54 PM
It carries about the same validity as "Change we Can Believe In". It's a "feel good" statement, and has very little basis in fact. Sorry to all the LEO's out there, but IMNSHO the police are a secondary means defense. In most respects, it's not Law Enforcment's fault. A cop on the street has to know almost as much about law as a lawyer, but does not have the luxury of a lot of time to make decisions based upon case law or common law. The more you depend upon someone else to take care of you, the more rights you give up. If I depend fully on the justice system to take care of me, I've given up my responsibility to take care of myself, and by default, I believe I've given up my right to carry any self defense material. The police are, to me, a resource just like my gun, my cell phone or my computer. Part of the system, not the system. I refuse to be a victim, and I refuse to be an active part of a nation of victims. If I screw up and make a wrong decision, I'll assume the responsibility and consequences of that decision. But I want the right and the ability to make my own decisions.
What about all that "Protect and Serve" collateral on their vehicles, websites, posters, etc., eh? Hard to overlook that.
If I've insulted any of the LEO's out there, I'm sorry about that. But you guys have enough to worry about taking care of people who won't take care of themselves. I'll try to leave you alone unless I have no other option.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
February 22nd, 2009 03:57 PM
I think some of you are missing a very important point here.
The OP was told to drive to the Police Station, and he would be rendered assistance.
The OP chose to decline that assistance at his own peril.
If you ask for help, and then don't like the help, and decline it further, what happens is on you.
February 22nd, 2009 03:58 PM
Sounds like a bit more excitement than one would wish for. As to the first Officer's response to 'just go home", it's the most idiotic thing I think I've heard recently (sounds like he pretty much admitted that himself!).
But his response brings up a few questions. Sounds like he was not a dispatcher, but the desk officer at the PD? And your statement that you called the local PD, not 911? If this is correct, it may be part of why you didn't get the desired result (an officer to check out the people following you). And his response indicates he didn't take your call seriously at all. We can't hear the conversation, is there possibly some other way you could have described it the situation? Did he know they were waiting for you in the parking lot and had followed you out? Did you tell him you thought you were being set up for a robbery?
As to your mistakes, no one so far has talked of the cause of them, won't dwell here but it needs mention. Temper. You lost yours (tunnel vision?) You simply cannot, ever, allow this to happen when carrying a firearm. It is simply not an option. I do understand. I've been very mad a lot of times. But we've got to train ourselves to step back and look at the situation. Look at the responsibility we have while carrying. If we cannot control that temper, and prevent it from dictating our actions, we risk becoming the aggressor, and doing something beyond what the law allows. We risk winding up in prison. Or worse, we risk being killed by someone who keeps a cooler head than us in a heated situation. In your case, you twice approached the guys who pissed you off, becoming the aggressor. Not a recipe for Freedom and long life.
It would have been best if the police could have investigated. For whatever reason, they did not (maybe not convinced you weren't "crying wolf", maybe simply busy with higher priority calls. Failing that, the proper action IS to drive to the police station! Done so once myself, and magically, the guy following took off. Problem solved (at least the immediate problem). I do hope you got the license plate # the second sighting, and passed it on to the police. And for more than just that incident. Though it probably is, this might not yet be over. They do know where your business is.
Lastly, under lessons learned, you wrote
Again, we didn't hear the conversation. Of course telling them they had a gun was not the right thing to do (and would be filing a false report, a serious offense on your part). But "acted like they were trying to rob me"? Sure sounds like they were to me! As far as I'm concerned, that was the truth. If you didn't convey that as a fear/possibility to the officer, I am not surprised he dismissed your call. You need to communicate the FACT that a REAL CRIME may be in the making, and that your suspicion is legitimate. Otherwise to them, your just one of the many bleating sheep they hear throughout the night.
- Calling the cops was a waste, maybe I should have told them they had a gun or acted like they were trying to rob me. The truth sure didn't get me help.
Regards, T Bone.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
February 22nd, 2009 07:09 PM
Well messing around in G.R. is kind of like messing around in Flint and Detroit. Looking for your weak spot. They will be back unless they come to live with me. (State Prison)
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
February 22nd, 2009 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by BikerRN
Kinda like if you call for an ambulance, if they are busy, just drive your self to the emergency room, right????
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
February 23rd, 2009 10:33 AM
Well, since you mention it...
Originally Posted by SleepingZ
But seriously, and this is completely off-topic, there are a lot of patients that I transport that would not suffer if ambulances had never been invented.
I'd say at least half could and should go by car, and have the car and a relative at their disposal to do so. If I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say, "I'll be right behind the ambulance" or "Call me when they discharge you" I'd be rich. Some people just think that if they need to got to the ED (many don't need to, but that's a different rant), then an ambulance is the only way to get there. Why? Some think it is an entitlement (VA law requires all municipalities to provide fire service, but not EMS), some think the stretcher gets them an automatic pass through triage and to the back (we frequently pull up to the walk in entrance and tell patients to go in and register themselves [per radio orders from the Doc]).
Now don't get me wrong, I treat all these people with respect and give excellent customer service. It's part of the job. They'll never know that I want to tell them to haul their own lazy butts to the ED. Or go see their Doctor in the morning for their three week old cough. Or that antibiotics will NOT make you feel well within 12 hours. Or that Tylenol or Motrin will reduce the baby's fever. Or that we will not bypass the local hospital to take you to the regional trauma center or pediatric hospital that is 60 miles away. And we can't give you something for your problem and then leave you at home to sleep it off. And on and on it goes.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
February 23rd, 2009 11:43 AM
+1 see it all the time.
Originally Posted by paramedic70002
February 23rd, 2009 12:47 PM
"Officer - One of them had something that appeared to be a gun."
Originally Posted by T Bone
It is up to the D.A. to prove that you never saw anything that could be construed as possibly a gun. In low-light, high tension situations that will be impossible thanks to things like the "reasonable man standard".
February 23rd, 2009 03:02 PM
Once again. Thank You everyone for your opinions. Today I drove to the police department and had a chat with a very nice Lt. he apologized to me for the comments of the desk officer.
He said they should have sent someone to at least check it out.
They wouldn't issue a complaint for it, but promised next time to be more responsive and to check it out if it ever happens again. Which hopefully it will not.
Our part timer is excited to be heading to get his CPL and he will be taking the class this weekened (which we paid for). We bought a gift card for him and he will have to pay it back over the next few months.
February 23rd, 2009 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by MrEarp
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
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