My evening.. A bit long winded..

This is a discussion on My evening.. A bit long winded.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Its not a catch 22. Its how you handle the problem. You are the same guys that whine and cry because you got stopped by ...

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 60 of 60

Thread: My evening.. A bit long winded..

  1. #46
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,631
    Its not a catch 22. Its how you handle the problem. You are the same guys that whine and cry because you got stopped by a proactive policeman, but when its you that wants something done, its OK for the other guy to get stopped for an investigative stop. It cant be both ways. Thats my point.

    Now, I agree with it being the right thing to do (the police stopping, FIRing etc) but who knows what else was going on else where etc. I wish I had someway of illustrating how many garbage "crying wolf" type of calls like this a PD gets, I can see why this one might have been blown off. Just look at some of the threads here sometimes for examples of this.

    Now before anybody gets bent on what I just said, I'm not saying the OP is crying wolf, I'm just using it as an example.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SE Kansas, USA
    Posts
    261
    Sometines it is a Catch22. What happens from the call to the Law Enforcement depends on a LOT of factors. 1. How you come across in your call in the first place. The cop shop gets a whole spectrum of good and accurate reporting citizens and some really goofy ones. I know, since I have been on the receiving end of thousands of calls in years gone by. 2. It does depend a lot on what is going on elsewhere in the area as to what/who is able to respond to your call. It can go from nothing to hectic overload, ie;"to .roll eveything you've got" in a flash. 3. Varies a lot from station and department as to what they do and do not respond to, after the dispatcher has done their interpretation/analysis of the call. That being said, there are some excellent dispatchers and some that are P-poor, and the same thing can be said as far as the admin and street officers as well. 4. Some dispatchers would have found a cruiser close by and had you drive by the cruiser so they could stop your stalker. Bear in mind that this takes Time.....more that you think, to accurately get a description of your vehicle, and your present location and if you and the dispatcher are familiar enough with the area to get all of that done. Meanwhile, are the potential perps still following you? A lot of these punks are very street wise, and can 'smell' a set up a mile away. 5. There are sooo many variables that come into play here that you still need to realize anything can happen or not. What do they say?? Your Milleage May Vary.

  4. #48
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I wish I had someway of illustrating how many garbage "crying wolf" type of calls like this a PD gets, I can see why this one might have been blown off. Just look at some of the threads here sometimes for examples of this.
    Everyone hears about the 911 calls due to a bungled order in the Burger King drive through. I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, a PD blows off a 911 call at its own risk.

    Had the OP gone home like the officer advised and his whole family killed by home invaders following him, I don't think the public (you know, the taxpayers that pay the LEO salaries) would've bought "we thought it was a bogus call" as an excuse.

    While I'm sure there are people on here who complain about random stops, I'd refrain from saying "you guys are the same ones yada yada yada" unless you can point to a specific poster on this thread being contradictory. We don't like it when anti-gunners paint us all with a broad brush and we shouldn't do it to each other.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama
    Posts
    669
    Someone else already mentioned it, but I wonder how it would look for something to have happened to this guy, then word got out that he tried to ask for assistance? I bet somebody would be in deep doo doo.

    If they were overewhelmed with other calls, doesn't sound like the dispatcher meant that.

    And as someone else pointed out, police are often making good money. I know one that makes more than his wife, and she is a CPA at a decent size firm.

    Anywho...that's my crappy .02
    Smith & Wesson M&P9cCrossbreed Supertuck
    Ruger LCP
    Nitecore EX10 R2
    SOG Access Card 2.0

  6. #50
    New Member Array Theojt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    10
    Contrary to popular belief - it isn't the Police's job to protect us. It is their job to ENFORCE LAWS. Until a law has been broken they really can't do anything.
    What about all that "Protect and Serve" collateral on their vehicles, websites, posters, etc., eh? Hard to overlook that.

    This is just like Healthcare - it is better/easier/cheaper to PREVENT than it is to retroactively TREAT afterwards. Maybe that's a big part of the problem. If the LE didn't wait until after the crime occurred, perhaps more crimes would be averted (heaven forbid), less people would enter the 'criminal' class, less people would be incarcerated.

    This isn't dissing the LEO's here, I think it's more of the fact that (some) attorneys have made a real mess of this country. LE's hands are tied even moreso than ours.

    Given that, I also have to give "big up's" to my local LE's for their proactive policy - here is a clip from their website:

    You are encouraged to not hesitate contacting the Police Department for anything that appears to be suspicious, unusual or unsafe at your residence, neighborhood or anywhere in the Town.
    So, I guess it's a matter of local policy.

    /j

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    763
    What about all that "Protect and Serve" collateral on their vehicles, websites, posters, etc., eh? Hard to overlook that.
    It carries about the same validity as "Change we Can Believe In". It's a "feel good" statement, and has very little basis in fact. Sorry to all the LEO's out there, but IMNSHO the police are a secondary means defense. In most respects, it's not Law Enforcment's fault. A cop on the street has to know almost as much about law as a lawyer, but does not have the luxury of a lot of time to make decisions based upon case law or common law. The more you depend upon someone else to take care of you, the more rights you give up. If I depend fully on the justice system to take care of me, I've given up my responsibility to take care of myself, and by default, I believe I've given up my right to carry any self defense material. The police are, to me, a resource just like my gun, my cell phone or my computer. Part of the system, not the system. I refuse to be a victim, and I refuse to be an active part of a nation of victims. If I screw up and make a wrong decision, I'll assume the responsibility and consequences of that decision. But I want the right and the ability to make my own decisions.

    If I've insulted any of the LEO's out there, I'm sorry about that. But you guys have enough to worry about taking care of people who won't take care of themselves. I'll try to leave you alone unless I have no other option.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  8. #52
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    I think some of you are missing a very important point here.

    The OP was told to drive to the Police Station, and he would be rendered assistance.

    The OP chose to decline that assistance at his own peril.

    If you ask for help, and then don't like the help, and decline it further, what happens is on you.

    Biker

  9. #53
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Metropolitan Detroit
    Posts
    1,995
    Sounds like a bit more excitement than one would wish for. As to the first Officer's response to 'just go home", it's the most idiotic thing I think I've heard recently (sounds like he pretty much admitted that himself!).

    But his response brings up a few questions. Sounds like he was not a dispatcher, but the desk officer at the PD? And your statement that you called the local PD, not 911? If this is correct, it may be part of why you didn't get the desired result (an officer to check out the people following you). And his response indicates he didn't take your call seriously at all. We can't hear the conversation, is there possibly some other way you could have described it the situation? Did he know they were waiting for you in the parking lot and had followed you out? Did you tell him you thought you were being set up for a robbery?

    As to your mistakes, no one so far has talked of the cause of them, won't dwell here but it needs mention. Temper. You lost yours (tunnel vision?) You simply cannot, ever, allow this to happen when carrying a firearm. It is simply not an option. I do understand. I've been very mad a lot of times. But we've got to train ourselves to step back and look at the situation. Look at the responsibility we have while carrying. If we cannot control that temper, and prevent it from dictating our actions, we risk becoming the aggressor, and doing something beyond what the law allows. We risk winding up in prison. Or worse, we risk being killed by someone who keeps a cooler head than us in a heated situation. In your case, you twice approached the guys who pissed you off, becoming the aggressor. Not a recipe for Freedom and long life.

    It would have been best if the police could have investigated. For whatever reason, they did not (maybe not convinced you weren't "crying wolf", maybe simply busy with higher priority calls. Failing that, the proper action IS to drive to the police station! Done so once myself, and magically, the guy following took off. Problem solved (at least the immediate problem). I do hope you got the license plate # the second sighting, and passed it on to the police. And for more than just that incident. Though it probably is, this might not yet be over. They do know where your business is.

    Lastly, under lessons learned, you wrote
    - Calling the cops was a waste, maybe I should have told them they had a gun or acted like they were trying to rob me. The truth sure didn't get me help.
    Again, we didn't hear the conversation. Of course telling them they had a gun was not the right thing to do (and would be filing a false report, a serious offense on your part). But "acted like they were trying to rob me"? Sure sounds like they were to me! As far as I'm concerned, that was the truth. If you didn't convey that as a fear/possibility to the officer, I am not surprised he dismissed your call. You need to communicate the FACT that a REAL CRIME may be in the making, and that your suspicion is legitimate. Otherwise to them, your just one of the many bleating sheep they hear throughout the night.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Michigan's U.P.
    Posts
    3,657
    Well messing around in G.R. is kind of like messing around in Flint and Detroit. Looking for your weak spot. They will be back unless they come to live with me. (State Prison)
    Les Baer 45
    Sig Man
    N.R.A. Patron Life Member
    M.C.R.G.O.

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member
    Array SleepingZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ne
    Posts
    1,737
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I think some of you are missing a very important point here.

    The OP was told to drive to the Police Station, and he would be rendered assistance.

    The OP chose to decline that assistance at his own peril.

    If you ask for help, and then don't like the help, and decline it further, what happens is on you.

    Biker


    Kinda like if you call for an ambulance, if they are busy, just drive your self to the emergency room, right????


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,119
    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    Kinda like if you call for an ambulance, if they are busy, just drive your self to the emergency room, right????


    Z
    Well, since you mention it...

    But seriously, and this is completely off-topic, there are a lot of patients that I transport that would not suffer if ambulances had never been invented.

    I'd say at least half could and should go by car, and have the car and a relative at their disposal to do so. If I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say, "I'll be right behind the ambulance" or "Call me when they discharge you" I'd be rich. Some people just think that if they need to got to the ED (many don't need to, but that's a different rant), then an ambulance is the only way to get there. Why? Some think it is an entitlement (VA law requires all municipalities to provide fire service, but not EMS), some think the stretcher gets them an automatic pass through triage and to the back (we frequently pull up to the walk in entrance and tell patients to go in and register themselves [per radio orders from the Doc]).

    Now don't get me wrong, I treat all these people with respect and give excellent customer service. It's part of the job. They'll never know that I want to tell them to haul their own lazy butts to the ED. Or go see their Doctor in the morning for their three week old cough. Or that antibiotics will NOT make you feel well within 12 hours. Or that Tylenol or Motrin will reduce the baby's fever. Or that we will not bypass the local hospital to take you to the regional trauma center or pediatric hospital that is 60 miles away. And we can't give you something for your problem and then leave you at home to sleep it off. And on and on it goes.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  13. #57
    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Eastern Shore, VA
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Well, since you mention it...

    But seriously, and this is completely off-topic, there are a lot of patients that I transport that would not suffer if ambulances had never been invented.

    I'd say at least half could and should go by car, and have the car and a relative at their disposal to do so. If I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say, "I'll be right behind the ambulance" or "Call me when they discharge you" I'd be rich. Some people just think that if they need to got to the ED (many don't need to, but that's a different rant), then an ambulance is the only way to get there. Why? Some think it is an entitlement (VA law requires all municipalities to provide fire service, but not EMS), some think the stretcher gets them an automatic pass through triage and to the back (we frequently pull up to the walk in entrance and tell patients to go in and register themselves [per radio orders from the Doc]).

    Now don't get me wrong, I treat all these people with respect and give excellent customer service. It's part of the job. They'll never know that I want to tell them to haul their own lazy butts to the ED. Or go see their Doctor in the morning for their three week old cough. Or that antibiotics will NOT make you feel well within 12 hours. Or that Tylenol or Motrin will reduce the baby's fever. Or that we will not bypass the local hospital to take you to the regional trauma center or pediatric hospital that is 60 miles away. And we can't give you something for your problem and then leave you at home to sleep it off. And on and on it goes.
    +1 see it all the time.

  14. #58
    Member Array Evil Drew M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    ILM
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
    Of course telling them they had a gun was not the right thing to do (and would be filing a false report, a serious offense on your part).
    "Officer - One of them had something that appeared to be a gun."

    It is up to the D.A. to prove that you never saw anything that could be construed as possibly a gun. In low-light, high tension situations that will be impossible thanks to things like the "reasonable man standard".

  15. #59
    Member Array MrEarp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    33
    Once again. Thank You everyone for your opinions. Today I drove to the police department and had a chat with a very nice Lt. he apologized to me for the comments of the desk officer.
    He said they should have sent someone to at least check it out.

    They wouldn't issue a complaint for it, but promised next time to be more responsive and to check it out if it ever happens again. Which hopefully it will not.

    Our part timer is excited to be heading to get his CPL and he will be taking the class this weekened (which we paid for). We bought a gift card for him and he will have to pay it back over the next few months.

  16. #60
    VIP Member
    Array Thumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    7,228
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEarp View Post
    Once again. Thank You everyone for your opinions. Today I drove to the police department and had a chat with a very nice Lt. he apologized to me for the comments of the desk officer.
    He said they should have sent someone to at least check it out.

    They wouldn't issue a complaint for it, but promised next time to be more responsive and to check it out if it ever happens again. Which hopefully it will not.
    Very good!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. CBS evening news!!!!
    By Sheldon J in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: March 22nd, 2011, 12:14 PM
  2. Interesting evening.
    By trekkiejt in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: March 10th, 2010, 07:59 AM
  3. More long-winded BS--America the Beautiful, a trip report version 2
    By 64zebra in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: September 4th, 2009, 10:29 AM
  4. Almost had to use it at the ATM this evening...
    By wolfshead in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 72
    Last Post: August 27th, 2009, 11:01 AM
  5. More long-winded BS--America the Beautiful, a trip report
    By grady in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: July 31st, 2009, 03:57 PM