My evening.. A bit long winded..
This is a discussion on My evening.. A bit long winded.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A little background. My family owns a retail location in SW Michigan. We are open 10 AM - 9 PM. Normal Retail hours. My father ...
February 20th, 2009 11:47 PM
My evening.. A bit long winded..
A little background. My family owns a retail location in SW Michigan. We are open 10 AM - 9 PM. Normal Retail hours. My father and I switch on and off every other night to allow us to have lives. I've had a CPL for the last 10 years and carried many different firearms over the last 10 years.
Tonight, I was carrying my usual Kahr PM9 and had a Glock 23 in my brief case. As I was leaving work, I set the alarm and left. I sent my employees off and was getting ready to pull out of the parking lot myself. I realized I left my dishes on the counter; my wife wanted me to bring them home to wash for next week’s dinners :). So I pulled back up to the store and went in turned off the alarm and grabbed them. Turned the alarm back on and walked out and locked the door again. This time the hair on my neck went up a bit on the way out to the car only about 10 feet. I realized someone was watching. Not sure how I missed them before almost thought it was the local PD as they sit in my lot at night writing reports.
This wasn’t the cops though. So I put everything in my car and left. Started to drive home, realized that they pulled out of the lot and now were behind me. A bit strange, but not totally concerning me yet as were on a major street and the intersection I was at is also a major 5 lane st / considered a state highway also (an "m" road).
So we get the green and I continue towards home. Since I live so close, I don't have much time to make decisions when it comes to going home. So I decided I would go a few streets past mine and then work my way back through the back streets to see if I am truly being followed. This way I would have a few street's to work it out and take them away from my home and my family.
So sure enough I make the right onto a side street, then a couple streets to the east, and now a left down a few more streets and another left. Pretty much at this point if they were not following they should have turned off. My worst fears were confirmed with one more right turn. They were following me home.
The OH crap light is flashing very bright in my head. At this point, I removed my PM9 from my pocket (still holstered) and put it under my leg which would give me a better position to get it.
At this point, I also dialed the local police. Explained who I was, what was happening and why I needed help. So. What’s the police officer on the phone say? "Sir, you should just go home!" At this point, the adrenaline is already ramped up. The cop is telling me to take this home to my family. Some place where I am not at ALOT!
I asked him if he would do that and he said no, he wouldn't bring someone home to his house either. Kind of like duh... I asked him if he would send a police car to me. He said no, he said bring them to the police dept. You know where we are at right?
I said what's it going to take to get a cop to do his job, he says when a crime is committed he'll get a police officer over to me right away.
The car is still following me. At this point I thanked the officer and hung up. Might as well not waste minutes on my phone bill. Might need them for a lawyer or something.
This is where tunnel vision / I got stupid. At this point I said enough is enough. The adrenaline was going and I was pissed. So I stopped in the middle of the road. Shoved the Kahr back into my coat pocket and jumped out of my car.
This time they took off from me. I wasn't able to get a license plate. So I hopped back in my car and caught up with them to get the plate.
Followed them around a few streets and got the plate #. I made the call back to the police and this time I got a civi dispatcher instead of the desk officer. He took the info from me. They still wouldn't do anything about it so I just gave up and broke off from them. Figured I would just go home, grab my stuff for the gym and work the stress out.
I went home changed into my gym shorts put my smart carry on and slipped my Kahr into the holster. I was still on that pumped up state that comes from something like this. I called my dad and filled him in. Called my employee and filled him in. Then of course called my wife and filled her in and told her to call me before she got home and I would leave the gym to meet her at home and then go back to the gym.
As I'm driving to the gym I'm stopped at a major intersection and sure enough the car right in front of me stopped at the light boxed in is the guys that were following me. This was my 2nd stupid move of the night. I slammed the car in park, got out and walked up to the car at the red light. Pounded on the window and asked WTH?
They couldn't have been 17/18 I believe the kid in the driver’s seat crapped his pants seeing this big pissed off shaved head guy in a T-shirt and shorts standing outside his window when its 19 degrees outside. I said in a very loud pissed off voice, why were you following me. All the dumb jerk says is " Man we were just messing with you man! Just messing with you. Just having some fun with you.”
I explained to him, that his information was in the hands of the police and to expect a visit. I think I used a few other profanities about being stupid and such. They sped off when the light turned green and I just gave up and went home.
To Sum it up.. For those who want the clif notes:
- Was followed home from work
- Couldnt get help from the cops
- Found out they were just goofing around..
- Did a few stupid things..
Some things I learned tonight:
- Calling the cops was a waste, maybe I should have told them they had a gun or acted like they were trying to rob me. The truth sure didn't get me help.
- Train and Train and Train. I tunneled, I got pissed. Being pissed off and reacting while being pissed is not always a good combination.
- Pocket carry while driving sucks. If I would have needed to present the gun faster I wouldn’t have been able to. I had some pre-planning time. Most situations wouldn’t give you time to do that.
- Some peoples idea of fun, definitely doesn't meet my idea of fun.
- I'm a bit upset that I lost my temper at the intersection when I was behind them. I wish I would have just laughed and went to the gym.
- My Glock 23 was useless to me. It was sitting in my brief case which was in the back seat. If it was in the front seat or at least on the floor behind the passenger seat I would have been able to access it.
I think that's all.. I know this went on forever.. Thank you for listening.. I just needed to vent a bit after I calmed down. I kinda understand my dog now.. She chases the cat, but when she catches up with the cat. She doesnt know what to do with it..
Last edited by Captain Crunch; February 21st, 2009 at 12:38 AM.
Reason: Language workarounds (3)
February 21st, 2009 12:12 AM
I seriously doubt they were just goofing off. Despite only being teens they could still have planned on robbing you.
February 21st, 2009 12:15 AM
I agree. The teen part doesn't mean anything these days. They'll drop you just as fast as any other criminal. They live with no fear of the justice system and other human beings.
February 21st, 2009 12:28 AM
Never be at your store late at night by yourself. Always have at least one other person there to close with you. Leave the premises at the same time. I would have left the dishes for later. It's not that I would be scared, just doing the conservative thing.
I worked in a shipping/receiving department and I was the one who closed late at night. For safety, I kept two people with me at night. I would rotate them out. We locked up together and we left together. Another reason is I could have gotten hurt and there would have been no one out there to help me. Simply having a cell phone is not enough.
The guys that followed you were not just messing with you. They thought you had cash since you're the last one out. Maybe they thought they could force you to open the store back up. Either way, they were going to follow you home. Even though the police officer did not do what you wanted, you did not follow his instructions to drive to the police station. You were more angry at the police officer and you decided that you would take care of it yourself. Getting out of your vehicle with you handgun was a major mistake and you did it a second time. You're the one who could have gone to jail tonight.
"[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775
February 21st, 2009 12:31 AM
Pissed off is something we all occasionally have. Don't let the emotions direct your behavior. Glad your still alive and well to educate us.
February 21st, 2009 12:45 AM
Don't mean to offend, but your behavior seems quite dumb to me.
You completely exposed yourself to getting capped TWICE. The second time was especially egregious.
I assume you wanted feedback, so afraid that's mine.
February 21st, 2009 12:49 AM
So, just what did you want the police to do?
February 21st, 2009 01:04 AM
First, good for not leading them to your house.
However, you need to keep your cool. When it gets "hairy" is when you need to be in control. Let people think you have ice water running through your viens and learn to not show your emotions.
Second, confronting these guys was dumb with a capital D U M B!
You became the aggressor in two seperate incidents, IMHO. They may have been justified in shooting you when you confronted them. That to me sounds like a "not too bright" situation to put yourself in.
Now, before you get mad at the police, please explain to me what laws the people following you were breaking? I'll give you a hint, NONE.
It is not illegal to drive around and follow somebody. If it was, everyone would be guilty on a daily basis. You had an "reasonable Suspicion" IMHO, and that's why you called the police and didn't drive home. That is understandable and commendable. However, just because you didn't get the results you wanted does not give you the right to become the aggressor, or an Avenging Angel.
Your lucky you aren't sitting in a Booking Cell right now in my opinion. Next time, drive to the Police Station, like the nice Officer told you.
February 21st, 2009 01:14 AM
still a scary situation. this days ya never know what someone has going on in thier heads. i also agree that age has nothing to do with anything. teens have
no respect for anything. not saying all teens but there are the ones with bad intentions. who knows they may have just been out to give people a scare but
one never knows. to bad the leo were'nt able to atleast check things out.
granted there are very busy with alot of calls and can't check into every
driver who may be being followed or other issues. i would say the only bad
thing was to get out of your car. that could have turned ugly real quick.
we all have been in that situation where some moron does follow us around
from time to time because they have nothing better to do.
glad to hear that things turned out ok and you were able to share your story.
stay safe out there.
(SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
the world coming too"
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.
February 21st, 2009 01:40 AM
Good for you for not taking them home with you. Your anger led you to doing some (by your admission) dumb things. You know what you tactically did wrong so there is no reason for me to get into that. Remember that fear and anger are very close cousins. They both generate huge amounts of energy, energy that can be focused like a flashlight on a mirror. You can focus that concentrated light by just moving the mirror. Same with your anger/fear, focus that energy into a usefull pattern. If you don't it's like shining that same flashlight on a crumpled sheet of tin foil. It makes the light visible but useless. Don't allow others to have such a strong control over your emotions/energy. Grasshopper, snatch this pebble from my hand
February 21st, 2009 02:27 AM
Stay rational. Don't get out of the car.
Don't unholster your weapon while in the car. LEO officers have done this and then had BGs ram their vehicle causing the weapon to be knocked on the floorboard and in some cases lost. I believe this happened to one of the FBI agents in the famous Miami Shootout of '86.
Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!
February 21st, 2009 02:53 AM
IMO you did everything right including walking up to their car. Now that this occurance is over you need to change your habits a little for future security. Don't close the store alone and don't allow your father to close up alone. Whoever leaves the store with you late at night needs to be armed just like you are armed. Keep your awareness up and if it happens again coordinate with another person who is also armed so that you both confront them at the same time. Of course you don't want to brandish but the only thing criminals respect is a strong foe and of course you'll have your weapon if you need it. Lastly your PD sucks. If I made the same phone call where I live the city would be on it like stink on
"You have to answer for Santino, Carlo. You fingered Sonny for the Barzini people."
February 21st, 2009 02:56 AM
Glad you're still alive after all that. Thanks for sharing the naked truth of what you did wrong. It's a heck of a lot harder to know what you'll actually do, than to write on a forum on the internet about what you ought to do.
You obviously know what mistakes you made -- and what a bunch of flack you'll get on here for posting it. Hearing this sort of story helps -- makes me realize I need to plan for becoming upset, not just dealing with trouble.
February 21st, 2009 05:17 AM
You screwed up confronting them,what I would do is get hold of the robbery detectives and give them your info on the car and situation,they may have a few cases that smell like it could be these guys and dispatchers aren't gonna pass on Info like yours
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
February 21st, 2009 06:58 AM
Take this guys advice and go to jail! or end up dead!
Originally Posted by wvshooter
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
- Sir Winston Churchill
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