I'm a student of history and I'm curious...

I'm a student of history and I'm curious...

This is a discussion on I'm a student of history and I'm curious... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I enjoy learning about the history behind different things, and I'm wondering what started the concealed carry movement? Was Florida the first state in modern ...

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Thread: I'm a student of history and I'm curious...

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    I'm a student of history and I'm curious...

    I enjoy learning about the history behind different things, and I'm wondering what started the concealed carry movement? Was Florida the first state in modern times to adopt CCW laws maybe due to high crime? I know before the internet where it is now easier to gain valuable information without media bias, most people got information through media sources, which of course we know is generally anti-gun. Did most other states think that the common citizen could not be trusted to carry handguns in public, and were there any states before Florida that allowed law abiding people to carry guns?

    Never mind I managed to find a map on the history of right to carry. Seems before 1987 most of the states were May Issue and I remembered Vermont has never had a permit system in place.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubNine
    Never mind I managed to find a map on the history of right to carry. Seems before 1987 most of the states were May Issue and I remembered Vermont has never had a permit system in place.
    Can you post where you found that map / info?

    Thanks. Sam.
    Last edited by Scott; February 22nd, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
    And the old man said, "We'll see..."

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

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    New Member Array rsallen13's Avatar
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    The orginal is here:

    Radical Gun Nuttery!

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    Member Array Ricebrnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubNine View Post
    I enjoy learning about the history behind different things, and I'm wondering what started the concealed carry movement? Was Florida the first state in modern times to adopt CCW laws maybe due to high crime? I know before the internet where it is now easier to gain valuable information without media bias, most people got information through media sources, which of course we know is generally anti-gun. Did most other states think that the common citizen could not be trusted to carry handguns in public, and were there any states before Florida that allowed law abiding people to carry guns?

    Never mind I managed to find a map on the history of right to carry. Seems before 1987 most of the states were May Issue and I remembered Vermont has never had a permit system in place.
    I think your premise is backwards. Everyone used to be able to carry openly or not like Vermont. THEN we were restricted. Your study should be of when freedoms were restricted and how slowly we've been fighting to get them back.

    my .02

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    Member Array dylistn's Avatar
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    More Guns, Less Crime

    John Lott's book. A must read. And covers some of the history on restoring the right to carry.

  7. #7
    Member Array BentLink's Avatar
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    Check out "The Second Amendment Primer" by Les Adams, Palladium Press (1996). This treats the topic with a strong historical foundation with exhaustive references back to the Greeks.
    Still Clingin'

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    I talked to some people from Texas cause I was surprised that TX doesn't allow open carry. They said everyone was kinda surprised when the concealed carry laws passed originally. They were like... uh... i thought everyone carried already! So in some places at least it seems like it's been around long before the laws were being written.
    Protection is a responsibility not just a right.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricebrnr View Post
    I think your premise is backwards. Everyone used to be able to carry openly or not like Vermont. THEN we were restricted. Your study should be of when freedoms were restricted and how slowly we've been fighting to get them back.

    my .02
    I know it was common to carry out in the open from the 1800s to about 1920 or 1930. As small towns grew into large cities, more laws were created restricting the carrying of weapons just like the Samurai in Japan were eventually restricted from carrying their swords as they adopted Western influence. I am sure as you get out into the more rural areas, more people carry guns. It is pretty sad that as governments around the world continue to put further restrictions on its citizens, the more problems they cause.

    I am happy to see that most of the United States has adopted shall issue CCW laws, and other states are may issue, while only two states completely ban the legal carry of firearms. We have come a long way since the late 1980s when concealed carry legislation was spreading like wildfire through the United States. I really think the internet has been a powerful tool in helping people realize that the police can't be there when you need them all the time.

    I heard over on Glock Talk that Arizona is thinking about decriminalizing CCW without a permit. I don't know if that is true or not, I haven't really looked into it yet, but that would make AZ the third state in the Union to allow CCW without the need for a permit. I think we are slowly but surely gaining ground against the other side. I just hope the politicians in Washington DC do not try anything too crazy that will legislate us out of the right to protect ourselves.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  10. #10
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubNine View Post
    I enjoy learning about the history behind different things, and I'm wondering what started the concealed carry movement? Was Florida the first state in modern times to adopt CCW laws maybe due to high crime? I know before the internet where it is now easier to gain valuable information without media bias, most people got information through media sources, which of course we know is generally anti-gun. Did most other states think that the common citizen could not be trusted to carry handguns in public, and were there any states before Florida that allowed law abiding people to carry guns?

    Never mind I managed to find a map on the history of right to carry. Seems before 1987 most of the states were May Issue and I remembered Vermont has never had a permit system in place.
    I can't answer your specific question but I will tell you this. Many folks just carried and did not tell. I remember my dad carrying as a civilian during and after WW11, well into the 1980s. I know for a fact he carried long before I was born and I still have a couple of his carry guns. If he did not have the gun in his wasteband it was usually where he could get to it easily like under the seat of his car. He owned a country business and long guns were available for ready access. My mother knew how to handle a firearm also. Lots of cash around, folks suspected it, but he was never robbed. The locals all knew he carried.
    I bought my first handgun around 1957 and it was usually close by, if not on my person, under the seat of the car or by my bed. When I was fishing or hunting the handgun was on my side. Folks of that era really never got their panties in much of a wad over someone having a firearm, at least in our area.
    I had my deer rifle and a handgun with me when I went to college, lived off campus. I usually had a handgun close by until I went into the military in '58. When I started a family in the mid '60s I started stashing the guns, lost interest in guns for a while but brought the handgun along concealed quite frequently. I always carried concealed stashed somewhere when I traveled up through the late '80s, stupid liberal laws be damned.
    It was not until a few years ago that I figured I had better play along with the stupid laws and get a carry permit.
    FWIW
    oldogy

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array T Bone's Avatar
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    And therein lies the problem. The laws passed against carry (unconstitutional IMO) caused you to become "one of the bad guys". Were you robbing, raping, murdering? Of course not! You simply felt the desire to exercise your right to self preservation. Unfortunately, at times under the law of the land, this made you a Felon.

    I wonder how many people were caught for nothing more than this. And tried, convicted, sentenced. Losing the right to even possess a gun, for nothing more than... possessing a gun! Undoubtedly, some even spent time in prison (let alone being the "convicted Felon" that subsequently got caught with a gun again!).

    For the OP, I agree. Your history study should go back further, at least to this Country's earlier years when these laws began to proliferate (you'll find that racism was also either a cause, or a tool with fear used by the politicians to pass some of the earlier laws). In fact peoples racial fears were also used to pass some of the early drug laws. These times are when the erosion of Freedom in our Country became widespread and systemic. Beginning really in the early 1900's, and continuing through to the 1960's and beyond. There are many major milestones in the restriction of freedoms. The Gun Control Act of 1968 was a big one. Many preceded it, and many have followed (Reagan's 1986 law, Bush Sr. importation ban, Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban, Bush Jr.s sarcastically named "Patriot Act").

    We've come quite a way on some fronts. But we're light years from where we're supposed to be. From where the Founding Fathers intended.
    Regards, T Bone.


    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    +3 for going back to when firearms started being restricted. Then follow them until today's mess of laws.

    Everything is legal until it is specifically made illegal. (example: talking on your cell phone while driving- at first the law said nothing about it, then the legislation decided it was a "problem" and addressed it by writing a law...)

    Take a look at the NFA of 1934. It is the first major national legislation that I know of.

    Gun Law News - National Firearms Act of 1934

    edit: Read this one too

    http://www.guncite.com/journals/hardfopa.html

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldogy View Post
    I can't answer your specific question but I will tell you this. Many folks just carried and did not tell. I remember my dad carrying as a civilian during and after WW11, well into the 1980s. I know for a fact he carried long before I was born and I still have a couple of his carry guns. If he did not have the gun in his wasteband it was usually where he could get to it easily like under the seat of his car. He owned a country business and long guns were available for ready access. My mother knew how to handle a firearm also. Lots of cash around, folks suspected it, but he was never robbed. The locals all knew he carried.
    I bought my first handgun around 1957 and it was usually close by, if not on my person, under the seat of the car or by my bed. When I was fishing or hunting the handgun was on my side. Folks of that era really never got their panties in much of a wad over someone having a firearm, at least in our area.
    I had my deer rifle and a handgun with me when I went to college, lived off campus. I usually had a handgun close by until I went into the military in '58. When I started a family in the mid '60s I started stashing the guns, lost interest in guns for a while but brought the handgun along concealed quite frequently. I always carried concealed stashed somewhere when I traveled up through the late '80s, stupid liberal laws be damned.
    It was not until a few years ago that I figured I had better play along with the stupid laws and get a carry permit.
    FWIW
    oldogy
    Thanks for sharing your story and wisdom.

    +1 on lots of folks used to carry and just not tell anyone. If you were a law abiding solid citizen, you didn't have to worry about being hassled by the police finding a gun on you because you were never targeted by the police.

    CCW didn't pass in Missouri until about 2003 but many folks carried long before then.

    It is nice to now be legal though.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricebrnr View Post
    I think your premise is backwards. Everyone used to be able to carry openly or not like Vermont. THEN we were restricted. Your study should be of when freedoms were restricted and how slowly we've been fighting to get them back.

    my .02
    + 1 or whatever
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