Building that houses federal offices, carry ok?

Building that houses federal offices, carry ok?

This is a discussion on Building that houses federal offices, carry ok? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; While reading the thread regarding carry in a federal building (post office) I began thinking, what about an office building that federal offices are located ...

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Thread: Building that houses federal offices, carry ok?

  1. #1
    New Member Array RTO's Avatar
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    Building that houses federal offices, carry ok?

    While reading the thread regarding carry in a federal building (post office) I began thinking, what about an office building that federal offices are located in?

    For example, I know that the Crane Communications building in downtown Detroit houses several ATF offices, occasionally I find myself there for one reason or another, if I am visiting another office in the same building would I be in violation of Federal law if I decide to carry a weapon on the premises even if I was not going to the ATF offices?


  2. #2
    Member Array Erik's Avatar
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    There is no federal prohibition from carrying in a private building partially occupied by the federal government, so long as you do not enter the areas under federal control.
    God, country, family.

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. 18 U.S.C. 930(g)(1).
    Should be fairly clear...

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    New Member Array RTO's Avatar
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    What is the source you are quoting? Are you stating that I am supposed to know that a federal office is leasing space before I walk into the building, the only reason I found out in the particular incident is I happened to share an elevator with a gentleman who was suited up for what looked like armageddon, and I just politely asked him if he thought it would be a good idea if I turned around and went home that day. The look on my face must have been priceless.

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    Member Array swaggs's Avatar
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    The source is listed at the bottom of his quote, 18 United States Code (USC) Chapter 44 Section 930. USC is the list of federal laws. Working in a federal building, I get to live by this one every day. Makes it so I have to walk the 1/2 mile through less than great parts of town unarmed every day. Can't even carry a knive over 2.5".
    The catch though, is subsection (h) of 18 USC 44.930 which states that unless the prohibitions listed in sections (a) and (e) is posted at every public entrance to the facility, no person shall be found guilty of violating subsections (a) or (e). (a and e relate to the mere possesion of weapons, not use.) So, if it weren't posted, then you wouldn't be found guilty. Doesn't mean you're ALLOWED though.
    "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less."
    "Save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword" - Gen. R. E. Lee

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    New Member Array RTO's Avatar
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    Thank you for the clarification

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    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swaggs View Post
    The source is listed at the bottom of his quote, 18 United States Code (USC) Chapter 44 Section 930. USC is the list of federal laws. Working in a federal building, I get to live by this one every day. Makes it so I have to walk the 1/2 mile through less than great parts of town unarmed every day. Can't even carry a knive over 2.5".
    The catch though, is subsection (h) of 18 USC 44.930 which states that unless the prohibitions listed in sections (a) and (e) is posted at every public entrance to the facility, no person shall be found guilty of violating subsections (a) or (e). (a and e relate to the mere possesion of weapons, not use.) So, if it weren't posted, then you wouldn't be found guilty. Doesn't mean you're ALLOWED though.
    You would be found guilty after reading this thread. Subsection(h) goes on to say unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

    930 subsection(d)(3) also says "(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -(3)the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

    And CCW is a lawful purpose...but I can't find anyone that will give legal advice to to do just that.


    18 USC Sec. 930
    01/26/98

    TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    PART I - CRIMES
    CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS



    HEADING

    Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities



    STATUTE

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

    (c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -

    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    (e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

    (e)(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).

    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

    (g) As used in this section:

    (1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

    (2) The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

    (3) The term ''Federal court facility'' means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    rolyat63
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  8. #8
    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
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    The way I read this is that if the whole building is dedicated to a Federal Government operation, then the whole building is a Federal "facility". But if the Federal Government only uses a portion of a building (e.g. rents just a single office suite), then only that portion of the building constitutes a Federal "facility".

  9. #9
    Member Array Erik's Avatar
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    Correct.
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  10. #10
    Member Array Erik's Avatar
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    "And CCW is a lawful purpose."

    No, it is not. Do not make the mistake of assuming that because your state allows you to carry that the federal government allows you to carry into areas of their control.
    Last edited by Erik; March 1st, 2009 at 12:26 AM.
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