Dumb Question about Gun Carry Signs
This is a discussion on Dumb Question about Gun Carry Signs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Please forgive me if this is a dumb question, and YES...I spent close to 30 minutes under the seach function trying to find this out..
February 25th, 2009 08:00 PM
Dumb Question about Gun Carry Signs
Please forgive me if this is a dumb question, and YES...I spent close to 30 minutes under the seach function trying to find this out..
People on the boards dicuss carry their gun and going to public places but they state that the sign indicating no guns was "not legal" what exactly does that mean and what makes a sign legal? Does an "illegal" sign nix out their request at no guns, etc?
My MO is to be quiet about what I carry, and to have a discussion with a store owner would only blow my cover so to speak so I am not looking to be some sign vigilante I just want to know what the heck you guys are talking about
February 25th, 2009 08:00 PM
February 25th, 2009 08:04 PM
IANAL... But it is my understanding the only state that signs hold legal water is in Texas with the 30.06 signs. Some states may have off limit areas where I believe they are required to cite the law on the sign i.e. Ohio. Also Federal Signs hold water too. Anything else generally is legal, and its a request by the property owner not to carry guns on their property. If discovered the most they can ask you to do is leave or face trespassing charges. As for the gun itself, you aren't committing a crime if say a mall has a sign saying no guns. You'd have to dig a little deeper in to each states laws to find out more... but all this is my understanding. Concealed means concealed
February 25th, 2009 08:07 PM
In my state of SC the law is very specific about what the sign should look like and what size requirements have to be met.
Originally Posted by hawkster
Many businesses post other signs that do not conform to the state law, so they are not considered to be a, "Legal Sign."
Remember though, legal or not, carrying or not, if anyone that works in that store ask you to leave, for any reason, you better beat feet. You want to argue, you'll go to jail for trespassing, it's that simple if they want to press the issue.
NEVER educate the store manager about the legal status of the posted signs, it is not your job. They hve legal experts for that called lawyers.
Personally, I try to never shop in a business that post any non CWP sign. Simply put, they are advertising that they don't want my money.
You're doing the right thing, concealed, means concealed!
February 25th, 2009 08:09 PM
First, check the laws of your state/City. See: Handgunlaw.us
If I see a "No Guns" sign here in CO in a private business, I am not breaking a state law if I proceed concealed, however, if discovered, all they can do is ask me to leave. If I do not leave, I am then guilty of Trespassing.
Texas has a specific law for signage to use for no guns.
Don't know about other states.
It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)
“The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.
February 25th, 2009 08:12 PM
Laws vary from State to State. It is wise to know and understand any State you carry in...also some locations are more gun friendly then others and some LEOs know the law better then others.
In Texas, signs must meet the 30.06 criteria to be enforcable under the law.
A drawing of a gun with an "X" through it does not meet this standard so it cannot be leagaly enforced.
PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS OR OTHER ENTITY
In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:
"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."
Here in Washington State, there is no law prohibiting you from carrying in a business or on private property. As such, any sign (at the mall for example) is just hot air. It indicates that the owner prefers not to have pistols on their property. The police cannot directly enforce it.
If a property owner does find out you are carrying, they can politley ask you to leave (then can ask you to leave for any reason). If you are asked to leave and refuse, you can be charged with criminal tresspass or armed criminal tresspass. This is very rare, especially since we carry concealed and it someone asks us to leave, we leave.
February 25th, 2009 08:13 PM
Presented with authority! Glad our state has a requirement.
Originally Posted by H8SPVMT
My Music: www.reverbnation.com/dickiefredericks
New tunes added.
"The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie. Learn it, know it, love it, shoot it. Good guys should live, bad guys not so much. " - Ted Nugent 09
February 25th, 2009 08:31 PM
In NE any old sign will do, they can have a 4 year old draw it with crayons, and it counts. Do not carry on posted property or you may have a bad day. And yes it sucks.
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
February 25th, 2009 08:37 PM
Asbestus suit on
I respect a business owner the same as someone's home. If they don't want me packin, then I don't. The anti-gun crowd alread has enough supporters and I don't want to add to their group. Foolish to try spliting hairs about the sign deminision or verbage.
February 25th, 2009 08:44 PM
I agree with you except for a different reason. If they don't want me packing, they don't want my business so I don't shop there!!!
Originally Posted by hdawson
February 25th, 2009 08:52 PM
According to Handgunlaw, the following is the rule for TN.
§ 39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings - Posting notice.
(a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is
authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by § 39-17-1351 - § 39-
17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of such
individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted.
Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons
entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the
possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of any such property as well as within the confines
of a building located on such property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are
primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be
posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon
possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash
symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to
the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially
similar to the following:
Pursuant to § 39-17-1359 , the owner/operator of this property has banned weapons on this property, or
within this building or this portion of this building. Failure to comply with this prohibition is punishable as a
criminal act under state law and may subject the violator to a fine of not more than five hundred dollars
Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
Texas CHL Instructor
Texas Hunter Education Instructor
February 25th, 2009 08:57 PM
I respectfully disagree.
Originally Posted by hdawson
Having it spelled out provides the guidelines necessary for the people that want to carry to learn, and accept as a legal posting. This puts the gun owner on notice they are not wanted there with a firearm.
Having the signage spelled out in the law reduces any misconceptions as to what consitutes a legal request to notify giving the poster the ability to maintain control over their property.
I believe it helps to balance the rights and responsibilities on both sides of the fence.
February 25th, 2009 09:20 PM
In Nc any sign is legal, unlike some states that have specific formats.
February 25th, 2009 10:01 PM
Be careful of what you are told.
Know individual state laws that you plan to visit...be very sure of all gun laws.
In FL, they can have sign with 3 foot letters and flashing lights...they mean nothing.
Stay armed...concealed is concealed (legally)...stay safe!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
February 26th, 2009 12:03 AM
Different states have different laws. Some laws mention the use of signs, some don't. Some have very specific requirements for the size, wording, etc. that is required to constitute a legally valid sign, some don't. In some states (e.g. NM) a verbal statement by a property owner made to a visitor has the force of law, in other states it doesn't (as regards concealed carry). So you'll have to check the laws of the state you're in to figure out what applies in your situation.
February 26th, 2009 01:15 AM
Thanks everyone. As others said, keep it concealed which was and remains my intention. I just wanted clarification on the "legal" sign referances.
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