City ordinance on concealed weapons

This is a discussion on City ordinance on concealed weapons within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The following is a local City Ord. Anyone see a problem with it? Wouldn't SC State law over ride this or negate it completely? Sec. ...

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Thread: City ordinance on concealed weapons

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    City ordinance on concealed weapons

    The following is a local City Ord.

    Anyone see a problem with it? Wouldn't SC State law over ride this or negate it completely?

    Sec. 9-1015. Concealed weapons in city limits.
    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon his person while in the city limits a blackjack, nunchaku or other device which is primarily designed, made or carried to be used to inflict bodily injury or death. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to apply to peace officers in the actual discharge of their duties as such. Any weapon found in violation of this section shall be forfeited to and/or confiscated by the police department.
    It is posted exactly as it appears. No other notes, no mention of SC CWP holders.
    Sean
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    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
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    Thank God we have state preemption here so cities don't get to make rules like that. Does SC have a preemption statute?

    From our code in Alabama:
    11-45-1.1. Subject matter of handguns reserved to State Legislature;
    power of municipality to adopt certain ordinances; concurrent
    jurisdiction of municipal courts with district courts.
    No incorporated municipality shall have the power to enact any ordinance, rule, or
    regulation which shall tax, restrict, prevent, or in any way affect the possession or
    ownership of handguns by the citizens of this state. The entire subject matter of handguns
    is reserved to the State Legislature. This section shall not be construed to limit or restrict
    the power of a municipality to adopt ordinances which make the violation of a state
    handgun law a violation of a municipal ordinance to the same extent as other state law
    violations, or to limit or restrict the power of a municipal court to exercise concurrent
    jurisdiction with the district court over violations of state handgun laws which may be
    prosecuted as breaches of a municipal ordinance
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    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Do you guys have state preemption?
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    Member Array capntang's Avatar
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    Yes, it would appear that SC state law does preempt local ordinances. Google "SC state law preemption" and you'll find references ... the first result most directly addresses this question, but you won't be happy with its location.

    What city is this, out of curiosity?

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    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Three comments:

    1) Usually these ordinances only apply to those without a concealed weapons permit, since the state permit "pre-empts" the local ordinance.

    2) Most of these ordinaces predate the shall-issue permit laws.

    3) Often times these ordiances adress weapons that are not covered by the state's prohibition on concealed weapons.

    For example. In North Carolina, it is illegal by state law to carry a concealed firearm, knife or other deadly weapon.

    A state Concealed handgun permit allows the carry of a handgun, but not a knife or taser.

    A local government could still ban the carrying of something like nunchuks. (sp?)

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capntang View Post
    What city is this, out of curiosity?

    South of you

    My concern is that some eager officer that does not know the details of the CWP law cites someone using this.
    Sean
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD in SC View Post
    South of you

    My concern is that some eager officer that does not know the details of the CWP law cites someone using this.
    It will just make for a fun day in court.
    Sticks

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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    I don't know what's more ridiculous - these laws or the reason they were enacted. What posturing politician felt it vital to public safety to specifically call out "nunchaku" as a potential concealed weapon? Was the town overrun by hoods laying down that funky kung fu on hapless residents? If so, did they then go, "Aww, shucks..." and suddenly stop carrying around their sticks after they passed the law?

    I'll bet the class dweeb at Nose Nugget High School was once found with a set in his hall locker back in 1984. Of course, the school administrators freaked out and felt the need for new laws to combat the potential threat of these fearsome instruments of death. What a pant load.

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    Member Array JimH58's Avatar
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    It might depend on the way the SC law was written. It might allow for local ordinances regarding CC. In KY it is expressly forbidden for any local jurisdiction to pass any ordinance to remove a person's right to carry.
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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    We had some local cities here in CO trying the same old crap. They would claim "home rule" as their ability to make such rules. In 2003 CO passed a preemption law and it ended up in State Supreme court with a 3-3 tie. So they decided that all CCW laws stay as written, but OC could be prohibited in Denver only. But some small towns have signage all over their doors threatening 1 year in jail and $1000 door sign for carrying a firearm in the building. Also same signs on the Douglas CO fairgrounds. The problem is that only concerns OC and not CCW, they just ommit those important details on the signs.

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    Even with state preemption, cities do stuff they shouldn't. There are no-firearms posts on the city parks around here, with no mention of exception for license holders. The signs are not 30.06 or similar; just text, "no firearms allowed."

    The prohibition probably can not be enforced against a licensed holder of a concealed weapon, but that doesn't mean someone won't try.

    OTOH, if properly concealed no issue should arise.

    We often talk here about lots of things which are done that many feel are not constitutional. I suspect there is a great deal of additional lawlessness perpetrated by local governments and officials which generally goes unchallenged--because, the victims lack the resources to fight.

    Just as one example, I know a guy who lost thousands of dollars in equity on real property because a new fire-hydrant ordinance required him to pay the full cost of installing same, though it would serve about a dozen residences. When he bought the property it was outside the city and city rules didn't apply. Years later, they were annexed and new rules promulgated. He got the short end of the deal. Not changing subject, just pointing out that lots of wrong gets done by local governments all the time; including weapons laws in violation of state preemption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Even with state preemption, cities do stuff they shouldn't. There are no-firearms posts on the city parks around here, with no mention of exception for license holders. The signs are not 30.06 or similar; just text, "no firearms allowed."

    The prohibition probably can not be enforced against a licensed holder of a concealed weapon, but that doesn't mean someone won't try.
    That's why the VCDL is trying to put teeth into Virginia's preemption law. Two bill were weakened to allow a judge discretion as whether to require a locality pay legal fees if they lose in court over a preemption issue. It is still a step forward, as currently there is no hope of getting such fees.

    Sans an arrest, the locals loose nothing. The county attorney is on salary. You are paying an attorney, paying fees, etc. They just keep doing things against State Law. Judge shuts them down. No money loss. They change a word or two. It's a revolving door.

    OTOH, Norfolk has lost $s for false arrest and the like.
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  14. #13
    Member Array Martial Archer's Avatar
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    SC has a state preemption

    S.C. Code of Laws Title 23 Chapter 31 Firearms - www.scstatehouse.gov-LPITS

    SECTION 23-31-510. Prohibition against regulation of certain matters.
    No governing body of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision in this State may enact or
    promulgate any regulation or ordinance which regulates or attempts to regulate the transfer, ownership,
    possession, carrying, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or any combination
    of these things.
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    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    ... that ordinance appears to be aimed not at firearms but at other defined "concealable weapons". It probably does not violate the the preemption as long as it does not include, nor is it applied to, firearms.

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