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When does a school building stop being a school?

2K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  miklcolt45 
#1 ·
There is another thread here, which asks is a daycare out of a person’s home still off limits even after the daycare closes.

Well, I want to expound upon that question, with what about actual schools, that are used for Church Service on Sunday or an evacuation shelter during a hurricane, or other functions that use the multipurpose building for something other than a school.

I’ve researched Florida’s state law, and I do not see a clear distinction, between the two, and it states a school K-12 and colleges.

So, I guess my question is when does a school building stop being a school? Or is the answer never.
 
#3 ·
As with most things, its up to an idividual state's laws (for state restrictions, but don't forget federal).
I can say what Texas says, but where you are may be different.
Check your state laws, or anyone from Florida...chime in.
 
#12 ·
As with most things, its up to an idividual state's laws (for state restrictions, but don't forget federal).
Absolutely -- it's State by State.

Here in Virginia the real trap is that the restriction also covers private and religious owned K-12, not just government owned. Some religious owned pre-schools are also accredited as K-?. As long as there is any K and up :aargh4: (BTW -- CHP holders may possess a loaded concealed handgun while in a vehicle. )

Also, most agree the restriction covers all the property, not just the portion used for the school.

I don't know of any test cases. Don't want to be one.

Ditto when students and teachers are not on the grounds. Don't want to be a test case there, either.
 
#4 ·
A public school building will continue to be a school as long as the city/state lists it as a school. Even if they no longer hold classes there it is still a school building. A private school reverts to whatever the owner wants it to be if the school closes.
 
#5 ·
How about a church or temple that has a pre-school and religous school, but it is in a separate part of the building from the sanctuary.

If, in the case of the temple, religous services are held Friday night and Saturday mornings when neither the pre-school or religous school are in operation, is it lawful to carry at services, bearing in mind that Florida law permits carry at church or temple?
 
#7 ·
Ron,

I've had this discussion somewhere (tho' it may have been on FL Concealed Carry) recently, and here some time back.

My attorney has a buddy who is in the State's Attorney's Office in Tally as well as being a NRA guy. Their opinion is that you are good to go, except when school is in session (they interpret that as when students and teachers are still on the grounds).

While it MAY be that the law would allow CC in areas of the church or synagogue campus NOT used for the school, and they personally think that makes sense, they were not willing to suggest someone being a test case since the interpreters of the law don't always use the same sense-o-meter that most of us probably would. :frown:
 
#14 ·
Nevada law provides:
NRS: CHAPTER 202 - CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY

NRS 202.3673 Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a permittee may carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of any public building.
...
3. A permittee shall not carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of:

(a) A public building that is located on the property of a public school or a child care facility or the property of the Nevada System of Higher Education, unless the permittee has obtained written permission to carry a concealed firearm while he is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subparagraph (3) of paragraph (a) of subsection 3 of NRS 202.265.
...

5. A person who violates subsection 2 or 3 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

6. As used in this section:

(a) “Child care facility” has the meaning ascribed to it in paragraph (a) of subsection 5 of NRS 202.265.

(b) “Public building” means any building or office space occupied by:

(1) Any component of the Nevada System of Higher Education and used for any purpose related to the System; or

(2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any county, city, school district or other political subdivision of the State of Nevada and used for any public purpose. If only part of the building is occupied by an entity described in this subsection, the term means only that portion of the building which is so occupied.

(Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914)

---------------------------------
IANAL, but by my reading in Nevada, private schools are OK to carry. All “Child care facility(s),” as defined are forbidden at all times. And components of the Nevada System of Higher Education are forbidden when "used for any purpose related to the System." This has led to some discussion on Nevada boards as to wheter it is OK to carry at a concert at the arena on the UNLV campus.

Such a nasty can of worms.

Ken
 
#17 ·
Fed law says it's a felony, good for five years in the penitentiary, to be in possession of a firearm within one thousand yards of a "private, parochial, or public school", except as provided by state law that relates to the issuance of a permit after background checks.

The question is as to the primary function of the facilities, not how they're being used at any particular time. So if you don't have the permit exception, and you walk to the 7-11 at two a.m., and happen to walk down the opposite side of the street of a building you have reason to know is used as a school (any kind of school) while armed, then that's a felony.

It's really simple, because you aren't required to know what's going on inside the building, or even be able to see the building. As long as you have (or ought to have, applying the "reasonable man" standard) an idea that the property is used as a school, then you're on notice (whether you actually know or not).

The rule doesn't apply to post-secondary educational facilities.
 
#18 ·
Must be more to the story

Fed law says it's a felony, good for five years in the penitentiary, to be in possession of a firearm within one thousand yards of a "private, parochial, or public school", except as provided by state law that relates to the issuance of a permit after background checks.
.
There has to be much more to the story than the above. For example, here and in many other states you don't need a license to keep a gun in your car. Are you trying to say that non-licensed possession of a gun in the car within 3000 feet of a school would be a felony? If so, probably 15% of our population here has committed a federal felony.

And what about all the homes with weapons in them which are closer.

Anyway, I am fairly sure the OP here was talking about licensed carry and so the fed rule wouldn't apply anyway.

The core issue is whether whatever restrictions FL places on carriage within a school apply when the structure's primary purpose is for something other than a school, and when the bldg is not actually being used as a school.

There is also the issue of who controls what goes on inside private property. Here, even in a hospital, I believe the management can authorize possession.

I bet most places of worship have at lest some rooms used for classrooms for religious school or day care on a part time basis. None of them could allow possession if the law were as narrow as presented above.

The original post raises some good, interesting, and important issues.

Whether or not there is meaningful case law clarifying things is an important factor which only a FL attorney who does a lot of "lookin" can answer.

(I hate the mess of uncertainty most of our legislatures have given us. Licensed carry should be exactly that with no exceptions or restrictions.)
 
#20 ·
Good stuff Dave H, and note too the use of the terminology in the code, "school zone" as distinct from "school."

Public schools and some private schools are surrounded by designated school zones. I'm not so sure that a room used in a religious facility for teaching necessarily means that the enitre building and public space about it is a "school zone."

We mark school zones with signs and with speed limits. We don't do that around our churches and synagogues which happen to teach religious classes inside.

The OP asked a FL specific question and I truly can't address it. But given the specific situation, they need to get it figured out and protect their kids and their membership.
 
#22 ·
For the sake of arguement, I would have to say,"Anyplace where there are children present in a learning capacity or, such a place where children could be brought to learn."

I believe some common sense could be applied here too but common sense seems to have gone the way of religion nowadays.
 
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