Church shooting in Illinois (merged)

This is a discussion on Church shooting in Illinois (merged) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by dukalmighty I hate to say it but maybe bibles should come with Kevlar covers,You almost cannot prevent this from happening without searching ...

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Thread: Church shooting in Illinois (merged)

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I hate to say it but maybe bibles should come with Kevlar covers,You almost cannot prevent this from happening without searching everyone.But If there would of been some armed GG's he may not of got off as many shots if any depending on level of practice from GG's
    In the mid-80s I pastored a church in Miami. There wa a very unstable man who was a member. He was nuts, but you couldn't tell that at first. He told of a man who broke into his home and whom he shot. What I found out later-the truth-is that he had chased this man down the street with a gun and had received community service and probation. He did all kinds of things, including molesting a teenage girl in the youth group. When I removed him from all leadership responsibilities, he came down to church to beat me up. Long story short, he would come every week and just stare at me. I knew he had a gun (he had told me). It was very unnerving. I joked about getting a bullet-resistant clergy shirt-you know, the ones with the backward collars like Catholic priests wear.

    I would lean more towards an abusive husband that the pastor had counseled his wife to get help from the abuse before anything
    This is certainly a possibility. Or, the guy could just be mentally ill. I have run into my share of those. 1 of them played a significant role in my decision to carry. In one form or another, they show up at churches a lot-sometimes for food or monetary help, other times to complain about family members or the CIA out to get them or whatever.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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  3. #47
    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    Another church shooting

    It happened again this morning. A pastor was shot by a man who came into the church in the middle of the sermon. The pastor's bible apparently deflected some of the (.45) rounds, but not the one that took his life. Sad.

    Early reports seem to indicate that the shooting was random. Perhaps we'll learn better as time goes on. In any case, it's one more example of church being a soft target. Law makers and voters: wake up!

    Oh, and it happened in the great "safe" state of Illinois.

    PC

  4. #48
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    Member Array benbovac's Avatar
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    Very sad, maybe some will begin to understand that conceal carry can hlep stop/prevent these situations. However with our current political leaders this is doubtful
    A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include thier own government --George Washington

  6. #50
    Member Array Sejune's Avatar
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    Very sad. In fact (without knowledge of this news) I sent an email to my pastor today asking if I could meet him with the idea of starting a security/safety ministry for our church. I have NO idea how receptive he will be to the idea so we'll see...but it's think kind of article that shows we are not safe...not even at our places of worship.
    Sejune
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  7. #51
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    I'm waiting to see whether this guy even had a valid FID card. You know it won't help IL if he did legally own the guns.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  8. #52
    Member Array RIA45's Avatar
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    There should be laws against killing people. It should be a crime punishable by death.

  9. #53
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIA45 View Post
    There should be laws against killing people. It should be a crime punishable by death.
    What's sad is, I don't know if you are joking or not...

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  10. #54
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sejune View Post
    Very sad. In fact (without knowledge of this news) I sent an email to my pastor today asking if I could meet him with the idea of starting a security/safety ministry for our church. I have NO idea how receptive he will be to the idea so we'll see...but it's think kind of article that shows we are not safe...not even at our places of worship.
    This will probably require training and that the church get liability insurance.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Very sad. In fact (without knowledge of this news) I sent an email to my pastor today asking if I could meet him with the idea of starting a security/safety ministry for our church. I have NO idea how receptive he will be to the idea so we'll see...but it's think kind of article that shows we are not safe...not even at our places of worship.
    This will probably require training and that the church get liability insurance.
    I can't imagine many churches that don't have liability insurance these days. Many people see churches as easy pickin's and having deep pockets. Would there be additional riders necessary? Maybe.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lance22 View Post
    Preachers visit inmates, and when these people are released they sometimes show up looking for 'a little help' and they don't like to hear the word 'no'.

    Then some of the ladies have kids who are hoodlums, they get dragged in sometimes. Or their ex husband knows knows they go to church faithfully so they show up.

    Our church has had (off and on) three registered sex offenders as members, one of whom is presently in jail, the other one has charges pending against him, the third left the state.

    Every Sunday morning, we have a pile of money just laying around. Between the collection time and the deposit it would be the easiest hit ever.

    I carry at church, as I do everywhere else.
    +1 to the above. Not a LOT of cash at most churches, since many use checks.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Nah. Such folks believe that would simply put more guns on the street and therefore raise the likelihood of such things occurring.

    Hogwash. What it would do is to increase the likelihood of citizens being able to defend themselves when broken cogs (like this murderer) decide to attempt to eliminate others.
    Makes sense to you and me... Wish I could say the same for everyone.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  14. #58
    Member Array JSBaker's Avatar
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    I am a pastor. I carry every day, including (especially!) on Sunday. My wife just said how glad she is that I do.

  15. #59
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    Somebody needs to pass a law in Illinois that makes it illegal to have a gun so this can't happen. Oh, that's right, they already did. How could this happen.
    COGITO, ERGO PORTO

  16. #60
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    horrible situation
    too bad nobody in the church could legally have the tools necessary to stop this type of threat

    the next time I hear someone from my church wonder why we have some member off-duty officers working security at all church functions, I'll print off this news story for them
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

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