First encounter with LEO...while carrying

First encounter with LEO...while carrying

This is a discussion on First encounter with LEO...while carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Had my first encounter yesterday while carrying. My GF and I were taking a ride on my bike. Weather in PA was 70 degrees. I ...

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Thread: First encounter with LEO...while carrying

  1. #1
    Member Array Chase2b's Avatar
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    First encounter with LEO...while carrying

    Had my first encounter yesterday while carrying.
    My GF and I were taking a ride on my bike. Weather in PA was 70 degrees.
    I had reached a stop sign and, like most guys on bikes, stopped but didn't put my feet down. Most guys will or can balance their bikes (at a stop sign) for about a second, without putting their feet down. It's just habit to do it this way. In the twenty years of riding, I've never had a problem from LEO's about this. Until yesterday.
    I was making a left hand turn after "stopping" but didn't see the cop sitting there. He pulled me over and said that I had failed to put my feet down at the stop sign.
    He asked for my license, etc. I told him it was in my saddlebags and was it okay to get it? Whenever a cop asks for my license, I always ask if it's olay to go into the glove compartment or sadlebags. It's just a courtesy thing for me.
    He asked if I had any weapons in the bags and I told him "No, but I do have a weapon on me and I have a permit".
    You could see that he immediately went into "cop" mode and stumbled a bit for what to do.
    He told me to not move or that he would shoot me! I thought this a little extreme but understood his concern. He told me to go to his car and put my hands on the hood and he then checked my waist area where I was carrying my Kahr 9mm. He then asked for my licenses and told me to put my hands on my head and not move. Then he went into his car to run the licenses.
    After about 10 minutes, he came out and handed me a $110 ticket, my licenses and gun. He had locked it open and removed the mag. He told me to holster the gun "open" and put the mag in my left pocket. He told me to not load the weapon until he has left and not in plain view of the public. He also mentioned that in the future I should immediatley inform an officer that I have a weapon and not wait until asked. I know this issue has been heavily debated on this forum in the past.

    My observations:
    First, all though a bit excessive, I don't feel it was necessary for him to tell me that if I move I will get shot. I understand he doesn't know who I am or what I am capable of, but...
    Second, if he was so concerned about the situation, he should have frisked me entirely. All he did was pat my waist area only and he never asked my GF a single question or asked if she was armed. When he told me to put my hands on his car, he turned his back on my GF without asking her anything.
    Third, when he returned the gun and the magazine, he told me to holster the gun (right side) and put the mag in my LEFT pocket. I was assuming he was telling me this so that I wouldn't load it and shoot him, but you would think that he would have noticed that I was holstering the gun on my right side and told me to place the mag in my RIGHT pocket where it would have been my awkward for me to load quickly.
    Anyway, he knows I stopped completely but didn't put my feet down (as required). I felt that I should have been given a break on the ticket.
    I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy to carry...


  2. #2
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Too bad on the ticket. Fight it in court if you think you have a chance.


    The LEO appears to need some training before he has an encounter go bad one way or another. Perhaps a polite letter to his chief would help.

  3. #3
    Member Array ChiWeiSz's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty stupid to me - sorry about the bad experience.
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    Member Array JeeperSean's Avatar
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    While it may be a good idea to inform, here in PA we don't have to until asked. He seemed a bit over skittish if you ask me. Giving you back an unloaded weapon and telling you to load it later seems like a big no no to me. I would write his chief and be nice about it.

  5. #5
    Member Array tlkolrod's Avatar
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    Foot loose

    Been a biker for 35 years in PA. Never new it was reqiured to place a foot down to show a stop. I was told the wheels stopping motion
    completely constituted a complete stop. Sure will seem odd when I put my foot down next time I stop my truck..!
    I say go to court. A stop is a stop. What the heck does it have to do with your foot. Did you ever watch a trials bike rider? Hell they can sit still for minutes without feet going down. I say LEO is incorrect.
    Toby

  6. #6
    EW3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chase2b View Post
    He told me to not move or that he would shoot me!

    He also mentioned that in the future I should immediately inform an officer that I have a weapon and not wait until asked.
    What??? Sounds like a call or letter (polite!) to the Chief is in order.

    He is wrong about that 2nd statement as well. I would do it, but in PA it's not a law.
    "Naked and Starving as They are We Cannot Enough Admire the Incomparable Patience and Fidelity of the Soldiery" George Washington, Valley Forge, 1777.

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    Sorry about your experience. Sounds like you ran into Barney Fife!
    I agree with JeeperSean. I think you should write a letter to his chief informing him of your experience.

    I'm almost inclined to wonder if he gave you the ticket just to rub his anti-gun bias in your face. Although, it has been my experience that most cops are pro-2A.
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    Member Array southarkrob's Avatar
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    That is the difference between Pennsylvania and Arkansas.... once the LEO saw that you had a CHL, he more than likely would have been at ease.... knowing that you had passed all of the background checks. I am friends with several police officers and they don't freak out about guns like some LEO's do. I have been pulled over several times with multiple handguns in the front seat of my truck and never have had a LEO even look at one of them...had them ask me if they are unloaded.

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    I agree a letter to the chief of Police/Sheriff or whatever department he was with is in order. As suggested be polite with the letter. The LEO definitely needs to be talked to about it.

    As far as the ticket, you yourself stated that the law says you need to put your foot down when stopping, it doesn't matter if you can balance your bike for 1 second or 5 hours, you violated what the law states and the ticket is deserved.

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    Sorry about the ticket... It goes that way sometimes.

    Regarding the "encounter" in general. I've read about a lot worse here on this forum.

    Generally, I'm not about busting a cops chops... I would just chalk it up to an inexperienced officer and leave it at that.

    I personally don't feel something like that encounter warrants a letter or phone call to the chief, but that's just me and my opinion.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Quote Originally Posted by southarkrob View Post
    That is the difference between Pennsylvania and Arkansas....
    Actually there is no difference between the 2 states, or any other. You are always going to have someone who over reacts regardless of where you live.

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    If You put a threat to shoot Him what would have happened ?.

    I balance on the bike all the time. I would fight it and write a letter or go see the Chief about the threat.

  13. #13
    Member Array Chase2b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    As far as the ticket, you yourself stated that the law says you need to put your foot down when stopping, it doesn't matter if you can balance your bike for 1 second or 5 hours, you violated what the law states and the ticket is deserved.
    Yeah... that's why I wasn't too upset about the ticket. I just felt that maybe he could have given me a break since I didn't run the stop sign or even "roll" the sign. He was emphatic on putting my foot to the ground.
    I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy to carry...

  14. #14
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by southarkrob View Post
    That is the difference between Pennsylvania and Arkansas....
    Bill Clinton once referred to Pa. as Pitsburgh and Philladelphia with Arkansas in the middle. He was pretty close in that description and take that as a compliment. Most LEO around here hardly bat an eye after you tell them. Just watch out for the rookies.

    Sorry about the ticket. Seems like a very minor offense.
    Maybe a polite phone call to the officer himself when he's available would be about as far as I would go this time.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Even though you clearly deserved the ticket (you said it yourself), Id write a letter to the chielf on how the stop was handled. Not about him making you holster the weapon open but rather how he never checked your girl and turned his back to her.

    You just may save this officers life.
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