What do you all think of this? AD

What do you all think of this? AD

This is a discussion on What do you all think of this? AD within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ksl.com - Gun accidentally discharged at Provo restaurant This really does not help us much....

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  1. #1
    Member Array Upland man's Avatar
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    What do you all think of this? AD

    Last edited by Upland man; March 12th, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Clearification of my position


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Diddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upland man View Post
    This really does not help us much.

    No.. Interestingly enough though, the comments on the article are pretty rational. One or two trolls but for the most part a decent discussion.
    Diddle
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    I still don't know how I gun "just goes off." I'm willing to bet he was doing something outside of standard procedures, which would be leaving the darn thing alone in his holster (if he had a proper one that is).
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  4. #4
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    I live in a town next to Provo, and although people are shocked when a gun is fired in a restraunt, most people around here are ok with guns being CCed. Too bad for this guy, not what he wanted to happen I'm sure.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    The quote from the agency was definitely on the money, it is unacceptable. There should be some kind of punishment, I don't know about taking away his ability to properly defend himself. Maybe keep his pistol until he completes a firearms safety course or something.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    They should inspect that gun and if the gun had no mechanical failure his CCL should be yanked so fast it makes Ben Franklins dead skull spin.

    I am also glad that the bullet didn't strike some Girlscout or some 25 year old Single mother of 4. Or someones Grandfather or Dad or anyone for that matter.

  7. #7
    Member Array XDFender's Avatar
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    It never ceases to amaze me when this kind of thing happens. I am 43 years old, have been carrying/using guns since I was 8, and have never had a gun discharge except when I intended it to. I think we all agree that modern, quality firearms simply do not just "go off" by themselves. The most basic rules of safe firearms handling will prevent any possibility of an ND. So how the h-e-double toothbpick does one have an ND in a freaking restaurant?!

    The only explanation--assuming that the gun in question was not a complete piece of junk--is that the person did not follow the basic rules of safe gun handling. And, frankly, I find that completely inexcusable, especially in a public place.

    Yes, we are all human, and we can all make mistakes. However, making the kind of mistake that must be made to cause an ND in a public place like this is simply not excusable, IMHO.

  8. #8
    Member Array Upland man's Avatar
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    This is just a nightmare of mine when I carry. I do agree leave it in a holster and don't touch it. However that holster should hold the entire trigger in a shielded way. I once had a gun in a fanny pack holster. Cocked and locked and when I checked when I got home the safety hand somehow been bumped into the off position. Freaked me out. I quit carrying single actions at that point. Nothing against those that do I just can't get comfortable about it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHorn View Post
    They should inspect that gun and if the gun had no mechanical failure his CCL should be yanked so fast it makes Ben Franklins dead skull spin.
    on one hand I agree....but on the other I hate taking away someone's freedom. Where do we stop? Do we take away the drivers' license of someone who has an accident that was their fault? What about people caught driving drunk (which I actually wouldn't mine taking theirs away)?

    As far as requiring classes to be taken. I think that is a good idea, but once again has to be approached carefully. Do we require a class to drive? What about to bring another human being into this world and care for it, no class required there. The loss of freedom always starts with something logical and reasonable, but it's hard to stop it once it starts. I'm not saying there shouldn't be class requirements. I have yet to take one because it's not required and I don't have the spare $$ right now. But as soon as I start working full-time, I'm signing up. But that is my decision made by my own free will. I think we just have to be careful.
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  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I think his permit should be revoked for a couple of years, and he be required to undergo training re safety, and especially get training on the particular gun he would carry.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSteve View Post
    on one hand I agree....but on the other I hate taking away someone's freedom. Where do we stop? Do we take away the drivers' license of someone who has an accident that was their fault? What about people caught driving drunk (which I actually wouldn't mine taking theirs away)?

    As far as requiring classes to be taken. I think that is a good idea, but once again has to be approached carefully. Do we require a class to drive? What about to bring another human being into this world and care for it, no class required there. The loss of freedom always starts with something logical and reasonable, but it's hard to stop it once it starts. I'm not saying there shouldn't be class requirements. I have yet to take one because it's not required and I don't have the spare $$ right now. But as soon as I start working full-time, I'm signing up. But that is my decision made by my own free will. I think we just have to be careful.
    I agree completely, it was an accident. A very VERY stupid accident and should be punished but not by taking away his right to defend himself properly as I stated earlier.
    As far as taking some kind of safety course I was throwing that out there as a suggestion. At least that way he would be safer, and he would keep his right to protect himself. Also he would have to pay for the course and all associated costs involved in this little episode.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  12. #12
    Member Array XDFender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    I think his permit should be revoked for a couple of years, and he be required to undergo training re safety, and especially get training on the particular gun he would carry.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    I don't agree re: the permit, because: (a) I do not believe a permit requirement is legitimate under the RKBA and 2A to begin with; and (b) to revoke the permit would be doubly infringing on the RKBA.

    But I do believe that if you are stupid/foolish/irresponsible/reckless/whatever enough to cause something like this to happen, then we as a society do have the right to require you to undergo safety education. It doesn not infringe on the RKBA, because you do not restrict that right; but requiring training at the risk of jail time or a severe fine for failure to complete the training is a justified safety issue.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradyM77 View Post
    As far as taking some kind of safety course I was throwing that out there as a suggestion. At least that way he would be safer, and he would keep his right to protect himself. Also he would have to pay for the course and all associated costs involved in this little episode.
    I agree with you on this, it just scares me when we go right to taking things away from people. This is exactly why I have so much respect for the Founding Fathers. They handled this all so well...
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  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFender View Post
    I don't agree re: the permit, because: (a) I do not believe a permit requirement is legitimate under the RKBA and 2A to begin with; and (b) to revoke the permit would be doubly infringing on the RKBA.

    But I do believe that if you are stupid/foolish/irresponsible/reckless/whatever enough to cause something like this to happen, then we as a society do have the right to require you to undergo safety education. It doesn not infringe on the RKBA, because you do not restrict that right; but requiring training at the risk of jail time or a severe fine for failure to complete the training is a justified safety issue.
    Hi XD,

    I understand your concern over RKBA. However, that right is not without limitations. We would not think a mental incompetent who could not distinguish right from wrong or fact from fiction would have that right.

    When one is a threat to the safety of others he must have some restrictions placed upon his bearing arms. That person was indeed a threat to others in that he was careless, and not well trained in the operation and safety of his firearm.

    We might argue about how long, but that man should not have the right to concealed carry for awhile, and until training. There are serious consequences to careless handling of a firearm.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  15. #15
    Member Array Samson1's Avatar
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    Is the gun in that picture a Kahr? I'm still learning about handguns but my understanding is that the ONLY way to discharge a Kahr is by pulling the trigger. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm right then the genius either didn't have a holster to cover the trigger or he actually PULLED it somehow. Too bad that he will put a black mark up for the rest of us! Maybe he needs a talkin' to

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