Sometimes it's better to get forgiveness than permission.
This is a discussion on Had our annual comapny meeting yesterday, policy change. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; MY company has a meeting for all employees every Spring. In this meeting we go over the company policies and handbook among other things. I ...
MY company has a meeting for all employees every Spring. In this meeting we go over the company policies and handbook among other things.
I posted a thread last year about this when the safety manager really got on the soap box about weapons at work.
Well this year there was no mention of it, we all had to sign a piece of paper...again....stating that we will comply with all the company policies contained in the "revised" employee handbook.
I did more than a skimming through it, but not quite a detailed word by word reading, and found no mention anywhere about weapons of any sort.
Now I am on fairly good terms with the safety manager, and I was tempted to point out that there should be mention of not bringing or having any illegal weapons (since 50% of the employees have tools or have access to, that could certainly be considered weapons - knives, clubs, hatchets, axes...) but decided against it.
This year her lecture was focused on Violence in the Workplace, and was really disappointed when she stated that as observers we are not to get involved, just call 911. That voice in my head immediately said "When seconds count, the police are minuets away".
Another employee had asked if someone started hitting them, and they hit back in defense, would they get fired? "That is a possibility." I would hope that there would be some sort of investigation into that.
I wonder if I should write out a letter of resignation and keep it with me that just needs a date and signature in the event of a SD shooting. Kind of a "Jump off the cliff before I get pushed" sort of thing.
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A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
Sometimes it's better to get forgiveness than permission.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
EDIT TO ADD: By "make them fire you," I don't mean bedding the boss's daughter or mooning the chairman of the board, just that you shouldn't give in to any amount of "it will be easier for everybody if you just quit, rather than making us fire you" type suggestions.
Last edited by kd5nrh; March 13th, 2009 at 07:36 AM. Reason: Clarification
Back in the 80’s I worked for corporate America “as I call it” and they had a policy against employees carrying a weapon.
However, the President had a two man security team who carried Uzi’s. And a couple others who would search you before could enter a meeting with him.
Kind of do as I say not as I do
Long story short, I carried a pistol daily anyway, and just made really sure no one knew. Figured if I ever had to draw my pistol, I’d rather be fired than dead. Oh, ya I left my pistol in the suitcase, when going to meetings.
After getting my CHL, I was carrying at work a few days before I took the time to read the employee handbook. I suspected the left coast peace-and-love crowd who employ me would have a sanction. Sure enough, it says I cannot have any lethal weapons in any company facility.
I looked at the box cutter in my drawer and felt sad.
It has been my experience that while companies my be legitimately concerned with safety. The handbooks typically come from a perspective of liability.
My opinion is... if SHTF at work they would more liable if the handbook says no legal weapons are allowed. (or no weapons at all)
Please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am no attorney, I am just Joe 6 pack who has been in the workplace for a while now.
My Company has never made mention of it and it is not in ink anywhere I have found, so I Carry in my truck most of the time. My only problem is that I have to go into Illinois frequently (only 10 miles from the state line), so that brings a whole different hassle. But I keep a locking case in the back of the truck and take care of it before I cross.
Since you agreed to this "non-violence clause" as a condition of employment you probably wouldn't have a good outcome in court.
That said, I ain't takin an a$$ whoopin for anybody.
Were I you, since it's not in the company policies, I'd just carry!
And, I'd not worry about an SD shooting in the future--I'm sure if you stopped a rampaging BG you'd be a hero, not an ex-employee. Plus, you'd be alive!
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
It's too bad but it's the way business is moving. My employer, and the client I am assigned to (I'm a contractor) both have the same policy with a few exceptions for Security. The reason being they don't want to be put in the position of endorsing one employees actions, or even give the perception that they endorse their actions. Obviously there will be exceptions, such as defending yourself from someone who won't let you leave, but they're not going to put that on paper for fear of the above.
With that said, even if I didn't fall into one of the loop holes, I would not take a whupping from someone just to keep my employer or my client happy.
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
The company I work for has very strict policies about concealed carry. They went so far as to ban any weapons from the parking lot as well. The policy states that anyone with a gun in their vehicle, even if they have a CCW permit, would be subject to immediate termination. I politely brought it to their attention that they were in violation of Oklahoma law by doing so. Two years ago Oklahoma passed a law that said, in a nutshell, that companies would be in violation if punitive actions were taken against employees that were LAWFULLY in possession of a firearm in a vehicle parked on their property.
I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about and I again politely showed them the law as it was written. I then invited them to look in my vehicle. They just as politely declined and that is the last it has ever come up. Now all the folks in HR watch me like I am about to go off the deep end!They were already leery since I am former law enforcement. It just means I can get away with a lot more....
dont ask, dont tell. If you asked for permission and was denied, you just set company policy. If you get "caught", say you are sorry and ask for forgiveness; which usually works.
Save a Greyhound. Adopt one.
If you mention an "over-site" it will become policy very quickly. Keep your mouth shut about it and use it to your advantage if the need arises.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
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Here's my advice...Shhhhhhhh!
Stay armed...enjoy life...stay safe!
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