Some of you may be breaking the law.

Some of you may be breaking the law.

This is a discussion on Some of you may be breaking the law. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's the situation: I'm an AZ CCW permit holder as is my wife. I am retiring in a month and plan to become a resident ...

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Thread: Some of you may be breaking the law.

  1. #1
    Member Array 390beretta's Avatar
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    Some of you may be breaking the law.

    Here's the situation: I'm an AZ CCW permit holder as is my wife. I am retiring in a month and plan to become a resident of another state. We are full time RVr's, we sold our house in Sept. of last year and now live full time in a 5th. wheel trailer. We will be spending approx. 6 months a year in the NW, WY, MT, etc. and during the winter in AZ, TX, etc. We plan to do seasonal work in various states for fun and a little extra income. Currently have a May-Oct job in Wyo.

    OK, that's all background: Re: concealed carry, I get the distinct impression that many CCW holders actually have permits from more than one state. Utah, is a good example....easy to get, is recognized by many states. Also one from their home state, where they are a resident and possibly a third one from another state. They assume, given the reciprocity network, that they are then "legal to carry" in a large number of states given the reciprocity network....WRONG!!. At least based on my conversations with 3 state agencies and two county sherriffs from 2 states today.

    Here's the issue: My current AZ permit is recognized in AZ and in a number of other states "as long as I'm an AZ resident." The moment I become a legal resident of SD for example, which currently recognizes the AZ permit, I would need a SD permit to legally carry concealed.

    This may not be a huge issue for those who don't have a mobile lifestyle, however there are literally hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are retired and spend time in different states according to the weather, part time job opportunities,etc. for whom this is potentially a serious problem.

    I'd appreciate any other information/views on this issue. Thanks


  2. #2
    Member Array OldFatMan's Avatar
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    I would think it would depend on the rules for establishing residency in the state you are in. For those states that require you to be physically present in the state 90 days to be "granted residency" it would not make sense that your home residency is jeapordized. Good Sam might have some resources related to this.
    I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate.

    I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    You raise a valid point. When it comes to CCW permits we should verify if the state we currently are living recognizes
    "resident of XXXX" permits. This could make the difference between being a "law abiding" citizen and someone who may be breaking a local firearm law.

    I don't plan on living in a state that has highly restrictive firearms laws. Please be sure to verify the firearm laws of any state you plan on living for any length of time. It is time well spent!
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
    Glock 26

  4. #4
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    I suggest you try some of the full timer RV forums. There are dozens of them. Life on Wheels come to mind but it has been years since I was pursuing those interests.
    oldogy

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    My wife and I are actually in a similar situation. I travel with work and we also live fulltime in our RV. Most of my work is in the western states and I have a Utah permit. I'm a resident of Montana but do not have a MT permit. Our UT permits cover us in the states where I work most of the time as long as I dont have to work in CA, CO or OR.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Well is the issue as they present it that not being an AZ resident anymore your AZ permit is invalid? Or is it that as an SD resident you are required to have an SD permit?
    If their issue is that your AZ permit is no longer valid once you are no longer an AZ resident, you could get a non resident permit that is honored there and just make sure you keep the issuing state advised of your current address. If their issue is that as an SD resident you must have an SD permit, only thing I can think of is pay the money and fill out the forms.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Front Sight offers a CCW class in Nevada that is recognized in 30 states.

    I don't think you have to be a resident of Nevada to get the permit.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    If you're living in an RV with AZ plates, an AZ drivers license, and an AZ CCW, what's the big deal? Folks travel all the time. I wish as an AZ resident we could get taxes off all the Snowbirds using our roads!
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  9. #9
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    Talking A Real Answer

    Where do you plan to vote? Where will your permanent address be? Where will you retain your professional relationships (doctors, banks, attorneys, etc.)? Where will you tag your rig? Where will you intend to retire? When you "leave" AZ, do you have any intent to return?

    Here's a list of residency factors I'll give you free, but don't tell anybody:

    This is generally a factual determination under the laws of the states addressed. The specific factors applied by each state may vary, and dependent upon each state, the absence of factors may or may not be important in said state. Additionally, the presence or absence of factors in other states may or may not effect another states’ determination. Additionally, such factors may, or may not be indicative of residency if the individual holds or exhibits any indicated items, dependent upon that specific state. These factors, derived from numerous different sources, may include:

    • Where a person’s habitation is fixed, without any present intention of removal, and to which, whenever absent, that person intends to return (the “State of Mind” of the individual);
    • A person generally will have only one domicile at any particular time. Once shown to exist, a domicile shall generally be presumed to continue until the contrary is shown. The absence of any intention to abandon an existing domicile shall be considered to be equivalent to the intention to retain the domicile;
    • A person who leaves a domicile to go into another jurisdiction for temporary purposes generally is not considered to have lost the domicile. The mere intention to acquire a new domicile, without the fact of physical removal, generally doesn’t change a person’s domicile, and the fact of physical removal from a person’s domicile, without the intention to remain absent, generally doesn’t change that person’s domicile;
    • A person shall generally be considered to have abandoned a domicile on the date that the person leaves a state without any intention to return to that state;
    • A place where a person’s immediate family is domiciled is generally that person’s domicile. The domicile of a person who is married shall be the same as the person’s spouse unless there is affirmative evidence to the contrary, the husband and wife are legally separated, or the marriage has been dissolved;
    • When a person has made a home at any place with the intention of remaining there indefinitely and the person neither lives at the home in which the person’s family lives nor intends to do so, then that person may be deemed to have established a domicile separate from that person’s family; and
    • The domicile of a child’s parents is generally the domicile of the child. The domicile of the parent who has legal custody of the child shall be the domicile of the child.

    Additional factors may be considered in determining whether or not a person’s domicile is in a state, although none of these factors generally shall, by itself, be a determinant of a person’s domicile:


    • The percentage of time that the person is physically present within a state and the percentage of time that the person is physically present in each jurisdiction other than said state;
    • The location of the person’s domicile for the prior year;
    • The location at which the person votes or is registered to vote, except that casting an illegal vote generally does not establish a domicile for income tax purposes;
    • The person’s status as a student, or as parent of a student in said state;
    • The location of services performed by the person in the course of employment;
    • The classification of the person’s employment as temporary or permanent;
    • The change in the person’s living quarters;
    • The person’s ownership of other real property;
    • The jurisdiction in which the person has been issued a valid driver’s license;
    • The jurisdiction from which any motor vehicle registration was issued to the person and the actual physical location of the person’s vehicle or vehicles;
    • The purchase of any resident fishing or hunting licenses by the person;
    • The location of established banking relationships;
    • The location of established professional relationships with healthcare providers;
    • The location of established professional relationships with attorneys;
    • The location of established professional relationships with accountants;
    • The location of established professional relationships with professional investment advisors;
    • The location of established professional relationships with insurance agents or providers;
    • The filing by the person of a tax return, report, or application as a state resident or a nonresident individual, including school tuition;
    • The fulfillment or failure to fulfill by the person of a tax obligations required of a resident;
    • The address where personal mail is received by that person and not subsequently forwarded;
    • The location of any school that the person or the person’s spouse attends and whether resident or nonresident tuition was charged, as well as the location of the school attended by any of the person’s children who are in grades K-12;
    • The representations made to any insurance company concerning the person’s residence and on which any insurance policies are issued;
    • The location where the person, the person’s spouse, or the person’s minor children regularly participate in church, sporting events, group activities, or public performances;
    • Certificate of domicile or homestead, if applicable (a homestead exemption should not be filed on the Indiana property while owned);
    • Utility bills at a residence;
    • Professional or occupational license; and
    • Wage statements or other proof of employment in the state.

    The following factors are generally not considered factors to be included in the factual analysis of “residency”:


    • The location of any organization to which the person makes charitable contributions; and
    • The location of any charitable organization for which the person serves as a board member, committee member, or other volunteer.

    So, having said that, it can be a tough determination. Additionally, many, or most of the RV Forums have a bunch of "Armchair CPA's and Attorneys" that are well meaning, and generally long on opinion and short on facts, statutes, construction, and are otherwise argumentative in the face of reality. I truly believe the complexity of the matter is beyond their intellectual abilities. They tend to rely on simple facts and their personal decisions, based on poor analysis and simplistic decision making models.

    Additionally, most RV Forums ban discussion of 2A issues.

    If you do this, please do not "cut corners" and try to "fly under the radar". The "Taxman" watches too! This effects your income taxes as well as estate planning, both of which are dependent on "domicile".

    The information in this email is nort confidential and is not legally privileged. It is intended solely for the the Original Thread Creator. Access to this by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is not prohibited and may not be unlawful. Any opinions or advice contained in this is not subject to any terms or conditions,

    This information is based on the facts as stated and authorities which are subject to change retroactively or prospectively. Any advice contained herein is solely for the use of the recipient and may not be relied upon by any third party without our prior notification and consent.

    Circular 230 Disclaimer: New IRS rules, which govern the way we conduct our tax practice, dictate that we give you the following notice: Any tax advice included in this memorandum is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used by any taxpayer, for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.

    Are you bored enough now?

    /S/ Not an Armchair CPA


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  10. #10
    Member Array 390beretta's Avatar
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    Hey members of this forum, I appreciate all your responses, but I'm afraid you've missed the point! RCher, you in particular are in jeopardy in my scenario.
    I know this is all very confusing and I am not one to create drama. However, this is an issue that I don't think is widely considered. Thanks

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array scottc's Avatar
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    Isn't there a national concealed carry permit available thru ATF?
    Expecting a carjacker or rapist or drug pusher to care that his possession or use of a gun is unlawful is like expecting a terrorist to care that his car bomb is taking up two parking spaces.-Joseph T. Chew

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    That is a reason that I do have several CHLs. In addition to my state I also have Utah and FL plus AZ. Some states, such as FL do not recognize a non-resident license. Of course FL recognizes its own NR issued licenses.
    Most states do not see the NR as an issue and recognize any valid license. It is necessary to check the state one is going to be in, and learn the laws of that state.

    Some states do not recognize a NR license for their own residents in lieu of their own state CHL.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottc View Post
    Isn't there a national concealed carry permit available thru ATF?
    No Unless you're a "Fed", LOL. or maybe some LEO exception about which I know nuthin'


    The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins. ― The Journals of Kierkegaard

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    National CCW Permit

    Quote Originally Posted by scottc View Post
    Isn't there a national concealed carry permit available thru ATF?
    I wish there were such a permit available! I'd be applying for one of those ASAP!
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
    Glock 26

  15. #15
    Member Array TXCHI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
    They assume, given the reciprocity network, that they are then "legal to carry" in a large number of states given the reciprocity network....WRONG!!. At least based on my conversations with 3 state agencies and two county sherriffs from 2 states today.

    Here's the issue: My current AZ permit is recognized in AZ and in a number of other states "as long as I'm an AZ resident." The moment I become a legal resident of SD for example, which currently recognizes the AZ permit, I would need a SD permit to legally carry concealed.
    This is the way I understand it. Texas will issue a license to anyone who is a qualified resident of another state who comes to TX to take the course. The 3rd party states each determine if they will honor only resident or nonresident licenses. They don't want one state getting all the money.
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