This seems odd

This is a discussion on This seems odd within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in Georgia, but visit Alabama just about every week. I'm aware that County Sheriffs in Alabama add stipulations to CCPs issued in their ...

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Thread: This seems odd

  1. #1
    Member Array HKR's Avatar
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    This seems odd

    I live in Georgia, but visit Alabama just about every week. I'm aware that County Sheriffs in Alabama add stipulations to CCPs issued in their counties.
    After talking with an attorney, several LEOs and a Alabama CCP holder it seems that those who visit from other states that have reciprocity with Alabama actually have more freedom to carry than Alabama permit holders themselves.

    Am I understanding this correctly? That a citizen of Alabama cannot dine in a restaurant that serves alcohol if his/her Sheriff does not deem it legal although the state has no restrictions on it, yet I can dine in that same restaurant because I have a Carry License from another state?
    Has this ever been challenged in court?

    Any and all thoughts on this are welcome.

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    I don't know the states mentioned local laws, but it makes sense that someone from another state would not know the laws of each county if they differ. One would be expected to know the State laws if they travel to that state, but it would unreasonable to know each countys different law. They probably don't want their laws challenged as being unreasonable or in conflict with the State Statutes. In Oregon, a City or County can not implement concealed carry laws that are not in compliance with State law. This keeps things simple.

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    Georgia preempts counties and cities from making any kind of laws/rules on the carry of firearms, although it took several lawsuits from GeorgiaCarry before the cities/counties understood this.

    Everything I've ever read on reciprocity is that the visitor has to follow the laws of the state they would be entering. The Alabama "system" leaves me with a great deal of questions.

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    When in Rome...
    You are usually required to follow the laws of THAT state...I've never heard of it being any other way.
    With a permit from another state, you have no less or any more freedoms from the state's required CCW laws.
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    I'd stop talking with that attorney if that is what he told you.
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    The attorney I chose to ask because he practices criminal law in Alabama. I understand of course that his knowledge will have it's limits and he made sure that I knew that he was only giving me his opinion of the situation.

    Can anyone suggest a point of contact that could answer the question of whether I am legally required to follow Alabama's state laws or the state laws plus any extra restrictions placed by the sheriff of any county I enter?

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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    He is right by some account. Because my permit is issued through Tuscaloosa county, I can't visit a restaurant that serves alcohol. But if I get a permit through, say Birmingham, I'm good to go. And that restriction applies to me in every county of the state.

    So if a permit holder visits Alabama with no restrictions on his/her license, they are free to dine in Chili's with a concealed gun, but I am not because of my Tuscaloosa sheriff restriction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSteve View Post
    He is right by some account. Because my permit is issued through Tuscaloosa county, I can't visit a restaurant that serves alcohol. But if I get a permit through, say Birmingham, I'm good to go. And that restriction applies to me in every county of the state.

    So if a permit holder visits Alabama with no restrictions on his/her license, they are free to dine in Chili's with a concealed gun, but I am not because of my Tuscaloosa sheriff restriction.
    The question I have never gotten an answer on is can you eat in Chili's in Birmingham? I can eat in Chili's in Tuscaloosa because my permit was issued in Perry County and has no such restriction on it. It appears to me that addenda like these are only enforcible and enforced in the county in which the permit was issued and then only on people whose permit is from that county.

    Another odd thing about Alabama permits is that as far as I have been able to determine all of them state that you cannot carry in a county courthouse, but there is no law that the AG can find that state it is illegal to carry in a courthouse. For that matter there are signs on state office building stating that carrying firearms is illegal in the building, but there is no law to that effect either. Strange.
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    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg View Post
    The question I have never gotten an answer on is can you eat in Chili's in Birmingham? I can eat in Chili's in Tuscaloosa because my permit was issued in Perry County and has no such restriction on it. It appears to me that addenda like these are only enforcible and enforced in the county in which the permit was issued and then only on people whose permit is from that county.
    Everything I have read indicates that a Sheriff's restrictions apply to every county within the state. But once I go into another state, I follow that state's laws only.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BamaSteve View Post
    Everything I have read indicates that a Sheriff's restrictions apply to every county within the state. But once I go into another state, I follow that state's laws only.
    BamaSteve,
    That is my understanding as well. If the issuing sheriff puts a restriction on your permit, then that restriction applies in all counties, not just the one in which it was issued. Fortunately, my county does not currently put restrictions, but I wonder how any of these restrictions would hold up under the preemption laws? Although not tecnically an ordinance, these sheriffs are in a way restricting possession in certain places.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota97 View Post
    BamaSteve,
    That is my understanding as well. If the issuing sheriff puts a restriction on your permit, then that restriction applies in all counties, not just the one in which it was issued. Fortunately, my county does not currently put restrictions, but I wonder how any of these restrictions would hold up under the preemption laws? Although not tecnically an ordinance, these sheriffs are in a way restricting possession in certain places.
    UPS: Tracking Information
    You might want to remove the UPS tracking information, as I'm sure that was not intentional. Sorry, I wasn't trying to be snoopy, I just noticed something that freaked me out at first. I have a package coming from the same location and expected to be delivered the same day here in Tuscaloosa. I assume you ordered something from Midway as well...

    Now on topic...Alabama to my knowledge has no preemption laws on the subject, so I assume they would hold up just fine. It is a good question though as to what would happen if Alabama did have laws on the books regarding this subject.
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    I've learned one thing from this topic. I'm scratching Alabama off my list of states I might move to.
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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array BamaSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I've learned one thing from this topic. I'm scratching Alabama off my list of states I might move to.
    It's really not all THAT bad. Although, I don't like that they don't handle the issue of open carry and a few others. As far as the carrying in a restaurant, just make sure you don't move to a county with a Sheriff's restrictions like that...to my knowledge there are several.

    The only other downside to moving to Alabama is the lack of resiprosity with as many states as others. I believe it might have to do with the fact that Alabama doesn't require any training, so some states don't accept my license. However, not currently an issue with me as all the states around here accept it and I don't travel much.
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    You have to remember that in Alabama no local goverment may enact any firearm laws with approval from the State Legislature. This bears into account the Sheriffs issueing permits with restrictions that are not proscribed by the state.

    The problem with Alabama is that we have the longest and most admended consitution in the world and no one has launched a CCW test case in Alabama.

    I am not volunteering to be the test case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota97 View Post
    Update: Your package has arrived in Tennessee.



    Oh and to add my $.02.

    If the law allows something for permit holders (i.e. concealed carry at the bar), but the local Sheriff restricts it on their issued licenses, then only their issued licenses should be subject to the restriction. If the law prohibited it, i.e., there was a county ordinance that forbid concealed carry at the bar, then you would be subject to it.

    IANAL but my limited understanding is that for something to be illegal, there must be a law to make it so.
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