This is a discussion on Define brandishing within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What one famous judge said about pornography also applies to brandishing "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it"
View Poll Results: Define brandishing
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Pulling back clothing to reveal weapon
Putting hand on weapon but not drawing
Drawing weapon, racking slide to load, return to holster
Waving in the air, or pointing at someone
March 17th, 2009 08:29 PM
What one famous judge said about pornography also applies to brandishing "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it"
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
March 17th, 2009 08:33 PM
If you go by strict definition of the word... I believe there has to be a component of menacing or threat involved.
However, in legal sense I assume it is going to be open to interpretation by the local prosecutor or perhaps established case law. Some States may even have a clear definition of the word with regards to weapons offenses. However, I most often find it to be rather vague and open to interpretation of the local or State judicial system.
Which means your definition may be in stark contrast to what the local prosecutor believes.
Which is why you pay your attorney large sums of money to ensure the jury see's things your way and not the prosecutors.
I do differentiate between what is brandishing and merely "flashing" of your weapon, such as when a cover garments gets caught on something exposing your weapon to public view or when the wind blows your cover garment, thus exposing your weapon. However, I also know that some States would also view that as brandishing.
I also define a "bulge" as a non-descript lump or shape protruding from some covered area such as a pocket or under an article of clothing which could be determined as anything, whereas "printing" would be a concealed bulge where the outline of the defined shape of a gun can be determined from below the cover garment.
I am glad my State is not so severe with their definition.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 17th, 2009 09:00 PM
You're not discarding a round, the barrel is empty. So, you are loading a round into an empty barrel. Again, this was taken from a post on this board.
Originally Posted by mzmtg
March 17th, 2009 09:21 PM
Thank you all for taking part in my little experiment. Over the past few months I've read hundreds of posts on this forum and there seems to be a general theme amongst the concealed carry threads, i.e., "know the law."
Now, that in and of itself sounds like a reasonable statement. Until you start looking closely at all the laws out there. For example, I took the word "brandishing," which is mentioned in some state's laws, and asked for a definition. The responses were interesting to say the least.
There were the usual caveats, "I'm not a lawyer, etc."
The best answer was:
Practically speaking, brandishing means whatever an arresting police officer, and/or subsequently a judge determines it to be.
So, how are we expected to "know the law" when we can't even define for ourselves what the intention of the law is? At best we can only define what we think the law says, and ask opinions on forums such as this. But even that doesn't completely define it, black and white. The law is fluid, it is ever changing. The best we can do is to get a idea of what is implied and go from there.
March 17th, 2009 09:25 PM
At the end of the day the only definition that matters is the one that applies wherever you carry. If you will not travel outside NH, then investigate what constitutes brandishing in NH. If in the future you will be taking a trip to Florida to visit The Mouse House, then you should get acquainted with the laws of Florida.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
March 17th, 2009 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by retsupt99
March 17th, 2009 09:35 PM
March 17th, 2009 09:39 PM
March 18th, 2009 12:33 AM
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
March 18th, 2009 01:29 AM
"So, how are we expected to "know the law" when we can't even define for ourselves what the intention of the law is? At best we can only define what we think the law says, and ask opinions on forums such as this. But even that doesn't completely define it, black and white. The law is fluid, it is ever changing. The best we can do is to get a idea of what is implied and go from there."
So true.. In NY even the lawmakers are unsure of what carrying concealed means. A bill was proposed but I think it was shelved rather than made law. It was supposed to clarify "Concealed" and to make available to permit holders a booklet or publication dealing with NY PENAL Code 400 concerning pistol permits.
" SUMMARY OF SPECIFIC PROVISIONS :
Section 1. Adds a new subdivision 17 to Section 837 of the Executive
Law as it relates to the functions, powers and duties of the Division
of Criminal Justice Services to require the Division to promulgate, in
consultation with the Superintendent of the State Police, a
standardized publication of general information defining the term
"concealed" and establishing guidelines on where and when a concealed weapon may not be carried pursuant to any applicable state or federal law, rule or regulation. Such publication shall be provided to county licensing officers for distribution to any person receiving a concealed carry permit and upon the request of any person who possesses such permit pursuant to Section 400 of the Penal Law.
March 18th, 2009 01:40 AM
Part of the proable is it varies in different jurisdictions.
Originally Posted by highvoltage
However, if I was reading a book, and it read, "Bob pulled back his jacket to brandish his weapon." I would understand.
1 : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner
Both are proper definations.
March 18th, 2009 04:44 AM
i think that would add a new meaning to stupidity. also an idoit like that should'nt be allowed to carry let only own a gun.
(SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
the world coming too"
NRA LIFE MEMBER
U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.
March 18th, 2009 05:23 AM
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
"Sometimes, when you're making gumbo, people just show up.", Leah Chase
March 18th, 2009 01:45 PM
I checked all of them. If you do any of those "menacingly" or with the intent to intimidate, you are definitely brandishing.
March 18th, 2009 02:29 PM
Uncovering your weapon for purposes of intimidation.
That is what I believe consists of brandishing in Michigan. Correct me if I am wrong, because I have been wrong about things I learned in CC class before.
I know what you're thinking, "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? - Dirty Harry
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