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CCW in a bar or club

3K views 22 replies 17 participants last post by  Stainless45 
#1 ·
Hi everyone, here's my first post and I want to thank all of you for the wealth of knowledge I have already obtained from reading this forum. I recently received my CCL and would appreciate opinions on this scenario. I play in a band, and from time to time we gig at establishments that aren't in the best part of town. Occasionally the venue's load-in/load-out is not ideal. Load-in is usually not a problem in the summer months as it is still daylight, but our load-out is typically around 2-3am, and can be out the back door of the venue, into an alleyway, or a poorly lit area. During these undesirable load-out scenarios I do everything I can to keep my SA high, but I still feel unprepared. We are stuffing more than $10k of equipment in a trailer in areas that are off the beaten path, and I envision scenarios where a person or group of persons take advantage of the opportunity and try to steal it. My gear is certainly not worth taking a person's life (BG or not) but I want to be prepared for the possibility that my life or the lives of my band mates might be in danger during the theft attempt. In Oklahoma (and probably many other states) it is illegal to CC in an establishment that sells liquor. Load-out typically takes 10-15 trips in and out of the venue. If you were me, would you ignore the law and carry while in this situation? A couple of finer points on how I was thinking about handling the scenario:

- I would not carry while playing in the venue. I would keep my gun secured in my vehicle and procure it after the show is over and before we begin our load-out. So technically I'm only carrying after the venue is closed and only to walk in and get equipment.
- I typically enjoy a few beers when we play, but on nights where the load-out location is potentially unsafe and I make the decision to carry, I would have ZERO liquor.

Thanks for any input.
 
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#2 ·
That sounds like a practical plan and probably the way I would handle it myself, if I were you.
I would definately be sure that my weapon is secured in a suitable safe if I ever had to leave it in a vehicle.
Stay alert, stay safe, and rock on.:smile:
 
#3 ·
Bring and carry on body within the venue as you play and pack in/out a defensive purpose knife.

People get hung up on the gun thing. Handguns are not the only defensive tools on the block. And aside from a knife there is pepper spray too as well as improvised weaponry.
Think out of the box and thus do not allow yourself to be boxed in be it by law or environmental circumstance.

Welcome to the board!

- Janq
 
#5 ·
I'm not going to comment on most of your post, with this exception:

but on nights where the load-out location is potentially unsafe and I make the decision to carry,
If you know it's unsafe, why are you going there? A smart man or woman will avoid places they know are unsafe.

In short, and this is something I learned a long time ago:
THERE IS NO SAFE PLACE.

If you feel you need a gun, you don't need to be there. I don't carry a gun anyplace that I wouldn't go without a gun. I avoid locations where I think I may need a gun.

Biker
 
#7 ·
I'm not going to comment on most of your post, with this exception:



If you know it's unsafe, why are you going there? A smart man or woman will avoid places they know are unsafe.

In short, and this is something I learned a long time ago:
THERE IS NO SAFE PLACE.

If you feel you need a gun, you don't need to be there. I don't carry a gun anyplace that I wouldn't go without a gun. I avoid locations where I think I may need a gun.

Biker
Words of wisdom from the Biker. I couldn't agree more.
 
#6 ·
Have you buddies bring the equipment to the back door where you can load it in the van without stepping into the bar and legally be carrying concealed,I hope your equipment is insured cause 10,000 is a big chunk just to gtive awway,and unless you got a crystal ball ,you don't know if they want to leave any witnesses
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
- I would not carry while playing in the venue. I would keep my gun secured in my vehicle and procure it after the show is over and before we begin our load-out. So technically I'm only carrying after the venue is closed and only to walk in and get equipment.
- I typically enjoy a few beers when we play, but on nights where the load-out location is potentially unsafe and I make the decision to carry, I would have ZERO liquor.

Thanks for any input.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Except for one thing, I would assume that any load out location is potentially unsafe.
This reminds me of a night that I was hanging out with Killing Joke after a show in Germany and the roadies caught a guy stealing a guitar.....he had a rough night.
 
#9 ·
Agreed with PNut and Biker.

Everywhere has potential.
Not even moms womb is an absolute safe place.
There is simply no such thing as a "safe" place, especially at night never mind being amongst a bar or club where other people with problems (mental, social, personal) might gather to drink alcohol.

Myself I can and do attend events and visit bars and clubs and not drink any alcohol at all...and have a fine time.
If I were a musician as you are Flybriz that's how I'd play things as well. No alcohol and stay aware whilst having fun.

- Janq
 
#10 ·
Hi everyone, here's my first post and I want to thank all of you for the wealth of knowledge I have already obtained from reading this forum. I recently received my CCL and would appreciate opinions on this scenario. I play in a band, and from time to time we gig at establishments that aren't in the best part of town. Occasionally the venue's load-in/load-out is not ideal. Load-in is usually not a problem in the summer months as it is still daylight, but our load-out is typically around 2-3am, and can be out the back door of the venue, into an alleyway, or a poorly lit area. During these undesirable load-out scenarios I do everything I can to keep my SA high, but I still feel unprepared. We are stuffing more than $10k of equipment in a trailer in areas that are off the beaten path, and I envision scenarios where a person or group of persons take advantage of the opportunity and try to steal it. My gear is certainly not worth taking a person's life (BG or not) but I want to be prepared for the possibility that my life or the lives of my band mates might be in danger during the theft attempt. In Oklahoma (and probably many other states) it is illegal to CC in an establishment that sells liquor. Load-out typically takes 10-15 trips in and out of the venue. If you were me, would you ignore the law and carry while in this situation? A couple of finer points on how I was thinking about handling the scenario:

- I would not carry while playing in the venue. I would keep my gun secured in my vehicle and procure it after the show is over and before we begin our load-out. So technically I'm only carrying after the venue is closed and only to walk in and get equipment.
- I typically enjoy a few beers when we play, but on nights where the load-out location is potentially unsafe and I make the decision to carry, I would have ZERO liquor.

Thanks for any input.
Actually it is not against the law to carry in a place that sells alcohol. In the type of businesses you are playing in, yes it would be, but it is not a blanket type thing.

TITLE 21 § 1272.1. Carrying firearms where liquor is consumed
CARRYING FIREARMS WHERE LIQUOR IS CONSUMED
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon
designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where
low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the
Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506
of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. This provision
shall not apply to a peace officer, as defined in Section 99 of this title,
or to private investigators with a firearms authorization when acting in
the scope and course of employment, and shall not apply to an owner or proprietor of the establishment having a pistol, rifle, or shotgun on the premises. Provided however, a person possessing a valid concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma
Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title may carry the
concealed handgun into any restaurant or other establishment licensed
to dispense low-point beer or alcoholic beverages where the sale of
low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary
purpose of the business.
In your situation I would carry pepper spray and a defensive folding knife. Although not the best options they are better than 911.
 
#11 ·
Mmmmmmmm tough one, but not impossible.

I'm not thrilled about leaving the weapon in the car.

I would call the owner and ask if he has a place to secure it during the show.

If not, I would hope to have, or find, a place that no one but me/band has access to and hide it there.

If you had to defend yourself outside after the show it would be tough for them to prove you had it in the establishment unless you confessed to it.

Permit violation versus you being in the hospital or morgue :confused:
 
#12 ·
Great advice everyone, thanks. Calling LILO's "Safe" and "Potentially Unsafe" is relative, I know... Here's how I differentiate the two:

"Safe" - LILO from the front entrance, well lit, open parking lot, security on staff
"Potentially Unsafe" - LILO from the back, side, or alley, poorly lit, obstructions/hiding places such as fences and dumpsters, no security on staff

I'd love to pick and choose the venues but Tulsa's music scene is small and that's difficult to do and still gig regularly. That being said, I always keep my head on a swivel and have learned to respect and obey that "bad vibe" feeling in my gut.
 
#13 ·
I too play in a band and I understand your situation very well. We generally have guys who travel with us to help with the load in and load out so someone else who carries can stand guard by the bus while were loading in.

My carry stays on the bus. I do, as Janq suggested, carry a knife all the times in the club.

Generally, we are not in too many bad places. For those who dont know about traveling in a band, you dont always know where you're playing that night. The agent books you and gives the details on the gig. You show up and do the gig. You do not know the neighborhoods.
 
#14 ·
I thought the same as Dukalmighty mentioned with having others hand you stuff to load at the door. You could remain outside for the entire load out and be legally armed.

Regarding ignoring the law, those of you new here need to take a quick look at the rules. Discussion of illegal activities such as deliberately carrying where not legal to do so is expressly prohibited.

Too bad your State law doesn't exempt employees of the establishment like Michigan's does, I was thinking here being paid to play there makes you an employee of sorts. I think you'd be legal here. I see Ok. only allows the owner/proprietor to be armed. :icon_neutral:
 
#20 ·
I don't think T Bone was referring to you, I looked through your posts again and didn't see anything. I believe he was referring to anothers questionable suggestion.
 
#17 ·
A couple of comments - yes, I guess if I thought I might need a gun, I shouldn't go to that place. Unfortunately, that would mean I would have to stay home, since there isn't anyplace really safe. Years ago, I lived outside Philadelphia - there was no CCW that I could get. I got a 6-D cell Maglight. Same thing the police carried. I packed that thing everywhere. They are superior batons. Janq has it, think about alternatives - there are lots of tools.
 
#19 ·
Although no place is 100% safe, some places pose a higher than normal probablility of danger. In addition, some places are not illegal to carry so it is not necessary to stay home to keep from breaking the law while carrying.

The vast majority of people live all their lives without carrying a gun, or being attacked. The world is not nearly as dangerous as is often made out here, and is less danger if one will use good judgment as to where he goes, and when.

Regards,
Jerry
 
#21 ·
It's not illegal to carry outside or inside here... unless it's posted.... or you've been drinking.
 
#22 ·
I'm in a similar situation - there are places you have to go because it is a job and if you want to be able to make a few bucks you have to play some sleezy places at times. In Ny state I can carry but playing guitar with a 2 pound hunk of steel on you hip is not very comfortable. If you have an open back speaker you can ditch it in there while playing if your not comfortable keeping it in a car. Loading and unloading equipment is when your most vulnerable as you know. So I stay outside with the equpment and my XD40 since it is very easy for someone to walk off with a $2000 guitar. Good luck to you and stay safe!
 
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