Deaf Concealed Carriers?

This is a discussion on Deaf Concealed Carriers? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Is there anyone else here? I seem to keep on running into roadblock after roadblock in acquiring a gun for myself. They seem to think ...

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Thread: Deaf Concealed Carriers?

  1. #1
    Member Array Naturallia's Avatar
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    Deaf Concealed Carriers?

    Is there anyone else here?

    I seem to keep on running into roadblock after roadblock in acquiring a gun for myself. They seem to think that I can't handle a gun and I feel that hearing has absolutely nothing to do with handling guns and shooting them. If I can get a driver's license, shouldn't I be able to get a gun and then a CCW? I'm having a hard time getting anyone to let me take their classes because they are balking at getting interpreters.

    I have asked a male interpreter to come talk to them and work out a deal- he gets class credit for interpreting for me. I'll pay the fees, of course!

    If there are any other deaf people here, what were your experiences and how did you handle it?

    I'm also concerned about one more thing. When I finally have my own gun, how do I handle the traffic stops, because if I reach for a pen, how will he know I'm not reaching for a gun?

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  3. #2
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    3 X 5 card

    Not sure how I can help you on the class but one thought on the traffic stop would be to have a pre-printed card with the information on it concerning:

    1) I am deaf
    2) I am a licensed concealed pistol carrier( or whatever your state might call it.
    3) May I reach for a pen to answer your questions on where my weapon is as well as driver's license, insurance, registration and permit are?

    If your are stopped you can 1) turn on your overhead light, 2) grab the card and hold it in your hands which will both be on the steering wheel and hand it slowly to the officer when he/she asks you to see license, registration and insurance. Or you could keep all four of those documents together with the 3x5 card.


    Rough but it is a start.

    Class, ask if you can read the book and challenge the test. I have done it when taking cpr.

    Good luck in your search and look forward to reading on how your class went.
    Eric

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    As far as I'm concerned you should be able to get a gun with no problems. Your permit poses other problems and concerns. The class should be the least of these problems. I don't see how the instructor can refuse to allow an interpreter for you. By doing so wouldn't he be in violation of the Disabilities Act?
    The major concerns I would have, is in the case you are forced to use you weapon, how would you hear a LEO when he arrived if you did not see them. You holding a gun in your hand and failing to obey commands could get you shot.
    Traffic stop should be no problem, either the pre-printed card kept on your sun visor, or keeping a pen and note pad there as well. How would you handle a traffic stop now?
    Sorry, I know I provided very little help. Hope it works out for you. Please keep us advised.

    Just another thought. I don't know what state your in, but is there a hearing impaired advocacy organization in your state. If so they might be able to assist you as well.
    Last edited by archer51; March 23rd, 2009 at 02:04 PM. Reason: added thought

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Naturallia,

    First off welcome to the forum. There are a lot of great people around here and they are helpful whenever needed. Feel free to call upon them.

    Good for you wanting to get your CCW and training. I know of no laws or regulations that would prevent you from owning and carrying a firearm. Your requests to bring an interpreter to a training class is more then appropriate and don't let them tell you otherwise.

    Some of the more local members might be able to help you find a range and trainer willing to work with you.

    As per a police officer and a traffic stop. It might be prudent to have your CCW card, drivers license, and maybe a short note explaining your condition that you could hand an officer in a stop. (I am hearing impaired and have a CCW and am carrying a pistol in my waist on the right side...) As long as you follow good traffic stop etiquette, I see no problem. It is common to be apprehensive about contact with police when first carrying.

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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Too bad you are not here in Colorado. I would be happy to teach you.

    My only concern would be your reaction to commands that must be obeyed immediately. In a range situation that can be addressed by having somebody who can hear a command and the let you know by tapping you on your shoulder. However, “on the street” this might be another thing. If something does happen and you have to draw your weapon, whether you use it or not, you will have to be able to respond to the commands of any responding LEO’s who may or may not be in your line of sight.

    Are you totally deaf, or can you still hear some noise?

  7. #6
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    I don't see why being deaf would prevent you from taking a class........do the insturctors give you a reason why?

    The preprinted card seems to be a good idea.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    Naturallia,

    Welcome to the board!

    As to your personal situation I understand it well hearing you loud and clear. And I 100% agree.
    My mother inlaw is a professional deaf interpreter and her brother is deaf. Further my wife has two deaf brothers one of whom worked to develop the Sprint service programs for the deaf.

    The assumption that a deaf person could somehow not be able to learn and successfully handle a firearm with exactly the same acumen as a hearing person is completely ridiculous, and shows the ignorance of the person who implies as much.

    As your location indicates "Ozarks" I'll assume you are based in Missouri.
    I'll shoot my mother inlaw, who is anti-gun, an e-mail asking if she can point me toward any resources in your area that might be of use for you.

    There has got to be a pro-gun deaf person who can at a minimum read lips and interpret for you if not a hearing person who can do same. Or better yet an NRA certified ASL capable instructor. In fact on that latter item I'd suggest you shoot the NRA an e-mail query of same and/or visit this website and shoot same query to the site owner; NRA Training

    As to training and issuance of range commands etc. that too can be handled and without need for a translator if the instructor is open minded and willing to work with you toward a solution.

    Deaf people like any other persons regardless of physical condition are applicable to 2A recognized rights as a result of being born a human being and thus having human right toward defense of self.

    - Janq

    P.S. - As to a traffic stop treat it like you would and have any other traffic stop pre-licensing.
    That is who we all do. There is no real or good reason to be concerned to that end.
    Pull over, hands remain on wheel, and when LEO Jones shows up at your window sign or indicate to him that you are deaf and would like to write him a note. I personally would keep a small notepad with pencil (no pen as they dry out) stored clipped to your drivers sun visor expressly for this purpose.
    Continue on with life as you would otherwise normally and communicate with the officer no problemo.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #8
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    Naturallia,
    I have a close friend who is fully Deaf and he does have his concealed carry permit. His brother, a CODA, was the interpreter for his class. To my knowledge, he didn't have any problems with having an interpreter; however, I will double check that.
    The printed card for traffic stops would be a good start I think. Just include it with your other documents you hand to the officer. As far as a situation where you had to use/or draw your gun, the lawyer who conducted the legal portion of my CC class said you're better off having your gun back in your holster when the responding officers arrive - not on the ground at your feet and definitely not in your hand. Others might disagree and that's fine, I'm just passing on some advice I was given that might be useful.

    BJC

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    My only concern would be your reaction to commands that must be obeyed immediately.
    Mine too, but then again I'm more afraid of getting shot by responding LEO's when I am off duty and out of uniform than I am about being shot by goblins.

    As far as the card, good idea, but move V E R Y S L O W L Y .

    I know of an OIS that involved a deaf kid being shot for reaching for a pre-printed card similar to your's. The kid was reaching in his pocket for the card. The Officer thought he was going for a gun. Also, the Officer may not be inclined to read what's on the card, as that diverts his or her attention from you.

    Here's what I would do:

    In sign language I would signify to the Officer that I communicate using ASL, or whatever language you do use. If that doesn't work, signify to the Officer that you are trying to communicate with him or her and then hand them the card. You probably already have a lot of practice communicating with the hearing world, so this should present no difficulties for you.

    I would not however show, telegraph, display, present, mime or mimic that you have a gun until AFTER you give the Officer the card, along with your Driver's License and CCW Permit. The life you save from getting shot may be your own.

    As far as Instructors, I can't help you there. It does seem to me though that if you provide the Interpreter, there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you need to find an Instructor, sign up and pay for the class and come with your Interpreter. When they kick you out of the class and refund your money, go to the media. I can see the Human Interest story now.

    DEAF CRIME VICTIM DENIED PROTECTION FROM CRIME BY GUN INSTRUCTOR!

    I'll bet they let you take the class then. Good luck.

    Biker

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    To Naturallia, Welcome to DC. How do you handle a traffic stop now? I see no reason that would prevent you from getting a CCW. Everybody should be able to protect themselves. Can't see why if you brought your own interpreter and was willing to pay the fee for them to attend why wouldn't the instructor allow it.

    To the Leo's on the site how do you handle a traffic stop with a hearing impaired person?

  12. #11
    New Member Array Catfight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naturallia View Post
    Is there anyone else here?

    I seem to keep on running into roadblock after roadblock in acquiring a gun for myself. They seem to think that I can't handle a gun and I feel that hearing has absolutely nothing to do with handling guns and shooting them. If I can get a driver's license, shouldn't I be able to get a gun and then a CCW? I'm having a hard time getting anyone to let me take their classes because they are balking at getting interpreters.

    I have asked a male interpreter to come talk to them and work out a deal- he gets class credit for interpreting for me. I'll pay the fees, of course!

    If there are any other deaf people here, what were your experiences and how did you handle it?

    I'm also concerned about one more thing. When I finally have my own gun, how do I handle the traffic stops, because if I reach for a pen, how will he know I'm not reaching for a gun?
    Wow...Im sorry you are having so much trouble with this. Im preparing to become a CHL instructor here in Texas and I plan on completely accomodating not only handicapped people, disabled vets, but also deaf people as long as they bring an interpreter since I do not know ASL. I hope you end up finding someone to help you out.

    Steve

  13. #12
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    Naturallia,

    I am not deaf, however I grew up around the Deaf and my Sister is, as well as working as a Sign Language Interpreter. I will check and see with any of the Deaf in Dallas, and pass on the info. In fact the AK-47 I am buying is being sold to me by a Deaf man and the FFL we are going through is also Deaf.

    I think you should be able to get your CCW as well as anyone.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    There may be a forum member here that is a qualified firearms instructor in your area.
    Possibly some "one on one" personal instruction and some actual range time would help give you a real advantage.


    Heck...I would even call or write to the NRA and request some conference time with an NRA attorney.

    The very bottom line is that you should contact a local lawyer and take it to court if you are denied your legal and Constitutional right to self defense.

    Were I you...I would not accept "No" for an answer.

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I don't see why being deaf would prevent you from taking a class........do the insturctors give you a reason why?

    The preprinted card seems to be a good idea.
    I suspect that the instructors believe they could not give adequate instructions, and leave themselves open to losing their licenses, or inviting lawsuits.
    That is not a frivilous reason. I am not sure I would either.

    I do have compassion for one who is deaf, and if I could find a way that I thought was satisfactory I would take him. Otherwise I would not consider it. I am not a CHL instructor, but only help from time to time.

    I would think one who can use language could make the difference if it was done in a way that would not cause distraction in the class, and fast enough not to slow the instruction. My friend who is an instructor gives a 16 hour class and it requires that much time to do it.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    I think the instructors who have turned you down have all violated the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). I think you would have a great lawsuit.

    I see nothing at all wrong w/you being licensed & carrying a concealed handgun.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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