Question about legality

This is a discussion on Question about legality within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Moderators Im not sure if this is where this goes if not sorry A friend of mine was driving on the highway through an Indian ...

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Thread: Question about legality

  1. #1
    Member Array mrm's Avatar
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    Question about legality

    Moderators Im not sure if this is where this goes if not sorry
    A friend of mine was driving on the highway through an Indian reservation and was pulled over for doing 75 in a 45 (Not a real smart friend) anyway he was unaware of whether to let officer know he was carrying gun in car (he does not have a ccw) so erring on the side of caution he did. Now he knows he does not have to let the officer know in Montana, but the officer said it was illegal to carry a loaded weapon on "federal land" I have searched everywhere and I cant find anything concerning this type of thing in Handgun laws.us or anywhere else. (by the way they let him off with a warning)
    Anyone with more knowledge please let me know thanks
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
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    New Member Array tkdcoop's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that reservations being a sovern nation that they have their own set of rules that are/or can be different that those of the state which they are located. Hence, you would need to contact the reservation police to ask as to their specific carry laws.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Carry on Federal Land is not forbidden, only National Parks (again) and buildings owned and operated by the Federal Government (paraphrasing). Indian reservations are soverign nations with their own gun laws, however, as long as you remain on the interstate highway, I believe you would be governed by state and federal law (not tribal law).

    If the officer was really sure about what he was telling your buddy, I highly doubt he'd let a guy off with a warning when loaded firearms are involved.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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    Member Array mrm's Avatar
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    Ya know tinkeringwstuff you bring up a very good observation I never even thought about the officer not quite being sure (I am going to call the tribal police and find out from the source). I will let everyone know what they say
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
    - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    So are we to assume the pistol was loaded? Was it in the trunk or in an accessible location?

    You need a new friend...

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    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Why does he need a new friend?

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    You'll get ticket from the tribal police, but the travel through the res on a state highway does not bar you from normal CCW laws for that state.
    OMO, but I'm 99% sure...

    That said, however, speeding through a res is asking to make a donaton larger than the one you'll make in one of their casinos...
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    State law applies on Montana Indian reservations. The Tribes cannot pre-empt State law. There is no duty to inform LE. Carrying a firearm in a vehicle is legal in Montana, and you do not need a CWP to do so.

    To be considered concealed in Montana, a firearm must be "wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying or bearing the weapon." Any other method of carry is not considered to be concealed.

    A permit to carry a concealed weapon in Montana is required only within the boundaries of an incorporated city or town.

    The person in the OP was "let off with a warning" because he didn't commit a crime.

    So are we to assume the pistol was loaded? Was it in the trunk or in an accessible location?
    Doesn't matter in Montana.


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    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
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    Terry

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    As far as tribal land goes, just remember that each tribe, and it's land, is a seperate soviergn nation.

    That means some nations may allow concealed carry while others forbid weapons all together. As far as I know the roadway, as long as you don't leave it, is bound by local & State law.

    It can get real confusing sometimes.

    Biker

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    Member Array Leopard125's Avatar
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    Lesson in this is don't attract officers.

    It should be as stated above that tha road way is state property,
    But do you want to argue that in a indian jail??

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I think Biker is correct. My understanding is that on the highway state laws trumps, but if you get off the highway the tribal law trumps. Of course tribal police can stop you for speeding, etc.

    I make sure I do not speed while going through a reservation.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    Is this completely true?

    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    As far as tribal land goes, just remember that each tribe, and it's land, is a seperate soviergn nation.

    Biker
    I hear or read this all the time, but don't know what if anything it really means in practical terms, and whether or not it is true, and to what degree.

    I believe that American Indians are US Citizens. They gain that citizenship the same way as anyone else, being born here, even if born on tribal lands.

    I know that it wasn't always the case that American Indians were considered citizens, so in the past the flat out statement that reservations are "sovereign nations" may have been true. Today, I wonder. I don't really know what that means in practical terms.

    It seems like they have some home rule law making authority but still
    are bound by State and Federal law; but then, they have casinos.


    Someone 'splain it to me please.

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    Member Array JimH58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdcoop View Post
    I am pretty sure that reservations being a sovern nation that they have their own set of rules that are/or can be different that those of the state which they are located. Hence, you would need to contact the reservation police to ask as to their specific carry laws.
    Reservations are considered soveriegn. Some are extremely strict. An example was the Red Lake (MN) Chippawas who until 1997 actually required a passport for visitors to the Red Lake Reservation. There have been cases of boats and even a seaplane confiscated by the tribe from trespassers on Upper Red Lake. State and Federal authorities were powerless to do anything to help the tresspasser. While according to the new law CC is legal on federal land I would not want to test that with reservation legal authorities. Reservations are considered soveriegn countries by law. This is often true in other ways as well. Native Americans can hunt and fish as the please on federal lands that are subject to restrictions to other americans. My advice: don't test it! I believe that in some cases weapons might even get confiscated and not returned.
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    Folks, we are discussing Indian reservations in Montana in this thread. How reservations are managed in other States, and whether or not they are "sovereign" entities in those States, is not germane.

    To repeat, State law applies on Montana Indian reservations. The Tribes can't pre-empt State law.

    If a person can legally carry a concealed firearm on non-reservation land in Montana, then he can legally carry a concealed firearm on reservation land, as well.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

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    Member Array LUV45ACP's Avatar
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    Well, tribal lands are sovereign. That means that they are their own country and make their own laws to govern that country. This applies in the entire United States. However, if you are ON the highway, and it is a state or US highway, then state law DOES apply, but the tribe still has the right to enforce traffic and other laws on that roadway. IF you get off of that road you are then in their sovereign territory, just as if you had crossed the border into Canada or Mexico. This applies to every State in the Union.

    If that tribe has chosen to adopt Montana state law as their own guideline then you would be correct Captain. If it only applies to the road then they could do what they want in the rez. If you are arrested on a reservation and you are not a member of that tribe the officers will take you to the nearest federal jail for prosecution in federal court.

    It gets complicated. Here in Oklahoma (sorry, I am straying from Montana) when I was still a LEO we had to deal with this issue quite a bit. We were not allowed onto Indian Land without the express consent of the Bureau of Indian Affairs police and they had to be there with us. I persued a drunk driver onto Indian land one night (he was non-indian) and I had to wait until the BIA got there to get him. By the time they got there he had sobered up and all I got to arrest him for was the attempting to elude.
    To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless.
    Lysander Spooner (1808 1887)

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