Carrying in Flordia hospitals?

Carrying in Flordia hospitals?

This is a discussion on Carrying in Flordia hospitals? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; High to all our Flordia residents. Question: I have to make an emergency trip to Flordia (family member NOT doing very well) and I'll be ...

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Thread: Carrying in Flordia hospitals?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Question Carrying in Flordia hospitals?

    High to all our Flordia residents.

    Question: I have to make an emergency trip to Flordia (family member NOT doing very well) and I'll be in and out of a hospital
    for the next couple of days (if things get better). Are Fl. hospitals a no-go or is it legal to carry there?
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Member Array Eagle Eye's Avatar
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    Goldshell here is a link ( Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0790/titl0790.htm , it's under section 790.06 subsection (12)) to our laws here but there is another law also which covers "introducing contraband items" into a hospital. I'm not sure what that statute is. Maybe others could chime in. Other issues are whether or not it is a teaching hospital therefore it would constitute a "school". I have carried into a hospice facility once, most of those folks were non-ambulatory. I didn't feel the need to tell anyone, I just looked for any sign showing if it was a "government facility" or "teaching school". Concealed is concealed! If anyone else would like to correct my actions if necessary and cite the other laws concerning my information please feel free.
    Last edited by Eagle Eye; March 28th, 2009 at 10:01 AM. Reason: Grammar correction
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    Hospitals in general are not prohibited, but I found this on handgunlaws.us:

    (1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such
    hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:
    1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;
    2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
    3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.
    Also if it is a hospital affiliated with a school (university hospital) it would be off limits.
    Last edited by archer51; March 28th, 2009 at 10:08 AM. Reason: added info

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    Ron
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    I believe that if the hospital has a psychiatric ward(providing menal health services) the hospital is off limits for carry.Otherwise, it is my understanding that it is lawful to carry.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    Here in the Gainesville area one has two problems, first most hospitals have mental health services, so CCW is a no-no!
    Additionally, the University of Florida is combined with the Shands Hospital System and therefore, another no-no for CCW.
    Keeping a weapon in the car during hospital visits is a personal decision, but I'd never take a sidearm into the hospital.

    Stay armed...hang with healthy people...stay safe!
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Roger, copy all.

    Thanks for the quick replies guys. I dunno if the hospital is a teaching hospital or not (it's in Ocala) but like I said, this is a quick trip with next-to-no notice and I've never had to go into a hospital in fl. in all my previous excursions into the Sunshine State....and I got the answer(s) that I needed. I'll just leave it in the truck.

    Thanks again.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    If it's in Ocala there will be plenty of guns around anyway.

    However, it is my understanding that Hospitals are a no go.

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    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaSon View Post
    If it's in Ocala there will be plenty of guns around anyway.

    However, it is my understanding that Hospitals are a no go.
    That differs from my understanding, but I certainly could be wrong. Could you please give us a cite in support of your understanding, assuming we are discussing a hospital that does not provide mental health services and is not connected to a school.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    Well I am wrong, I said no because (1) all hospitals serve mental health clients to some degree and (2) diff statutes can exclude others.

    BUT I am not an attorney. So while I was trying to find the statute, I found this article from Counselor Gutmacher where he successfully made the defense that it WAS authorized(see below).

    HOWEVER he cautions that the next one that does so may be a test case.


    Another take from our favorite Attorney, Mr. Gutmacher and here is an opinion from his site:
    Legal Q&A with Jon Gutmacher, Author of Florida Firearms: Law, Use and Ownership

    CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?

    © 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher
    Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:

    (1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

    Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
    Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
    Any firearms or deadly weapon”.
    I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

    Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

    I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

    Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.

  10. #10
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaSon View Post
    Well I am wrong, I said no because (1) all hospitals serve mental health clients to some degree and (2) diff statutes can exclude others.

    BUT I am not an attorney. So while I was trying to find the statute, I found this article from Counselor Gutmacher where he successfully made the defense that it WAS authorized(see below).

    HOWEVER he cautions that the next one that does so may be a test case.


    Another take from our favorite Attorney, Mr. Gutmacher and here is an opinion from his site:
    Legal Q&A with Jon Gutmacher, Author of Florida Firearms: Law, Use and Ownership

    CAN YOU CARRY AT A HOSPITAL?

    © 2006 by Jon H. Gutmacher
    Florida Statute § 394.458 states “except as authorized by law” it is a third degree felony (yeah – felony!) for any person to bring, carry, possess, or transport a “firearm or other dangerous weapon” upon the grounds of any “hospital (or mental health facility) providing mental health services”. Here’s the actual wording:

    (1) (a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

    Any intoxicating beverage or beverage . . . .
    Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or
    Any firearms or deadly weapon”.
    I just handled an arrest involving this statute. I raised the defense that the phrase “except as authorized by law” meant just that – and that securely encased weapons in vehicles on hospital grounds were therefore legal, pursuant to Florida Statute 790.25, and that persons having a Concealed Weapons Permit were also authorized because Florida Statute 790.06(12) lists all the places you can’t carry pursuant to your permit – and a hospital or mental health facility isn’t one of them. Thus you’re obviously “authorized by law”.

    Now, the State Attorney agreed with me in the case I was handling – and dropped the prosecution. However, there is no binding appellate decision on this issue, and therefore, no guarantee you couldn’t get arrested, and become the next “test case”. Just because I’m sure my interpretation is correct doesn’t mean that the rest of the world will. Likewise, the “law according to Gutmacher” isn’t quite the same thing as an Opinion by an appellate court which is binding across the State. So -- maybe some caution isn’t such a bad idea?

    I therefore would suggest that carrying inside a hospital or mental health facility pursuant to your CWP should be reserved for very special instances. Likewise, if any one knows you’re carrying, and tells the police or a security guard - I would suggest you be more than accommodating in offering to leave immediately if they feel you’re illegal, or just don’t want you there. Remember -- even if my interpretation is correct -- they still have the right to tell you to leave under trespass laws, no matter what the actual law is. So just get the heck out while you have the chance. If you get into any type of situation where you’re actually taken into custody, politely suggest to the officers that because you have a CWP, you’re not acting illegally. They’ll probably ignore you – but who knows? Can’t hurt!

    Anyway, that’s my spin on this statute. Keep safe.
    Thanks for the clarification. The reason I questioned you is because some hospitals, which clearly provide mental health services, post "no guns" and others, such as the Jupiter Medical Center, do not.

    Of course, that does not necessarily mean that they don't provide mental health services and that carry would therefore be lawful.

    I suppose that the most cautious approach is to not take any chances and not carry into any hospital.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Chevyguy85's Avatar
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    Don't know about the rest of the hospitals but Florida south here in orlando prohibits guns based on one of the statutes, don't know which one it is off hand but its the one that has the long list of places not allowing concealed carry. Oddly enough, hospitals aren't specifically listed on that list but the sign outside the emergency room entrance at florida south shows that statue. I only know this b/c my father pointed it out to me as we were going in and i had to walk back out to the truck to get rid of my gun. probably safe to assume that the rest of the hospitals are the same way but then again you never know

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevyguy85 View Post
    Don't know about the rest of the hospitals but Florida south here in orlando prohibits guns based on one of the statutes, don't know which one it is off hand but its the one that has the long list of places not allowing concealed carry. Oddly enough, hospitals aren't specifically listed on that list but the sign outside the emergency room entrance at florida south shows that statue. I only know this b/c my father pointed it out to me as we were going in and i had to walk back out to the truck to get rid of my gun. probably safe to assume that the rest of the hospitals are the same way but then again you never know
    Here is the statute, and it is the only one that applies. NOTHING in 790 states you cannot carry in a hospital.

    394.458 Introduction or removal of certain articles unlawful; penalty.--

    (1)(a) Except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of each hospital providing mental health services under this part, it is unlawful to introduce into or upon the grounds of such hospital, or to take or attempt to take or send therefrom, any of the following articles, which are hereby declared to be contraband for the purposes of this section:

    1. Any intoxicating beverage or beverage which causes or may cause an intoxicating effect;

    2. Any controlled substance as defined in chapter 893; or

    3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

    (b) It is unlawful to transmit to, or attempt to transmit to, or cause or attempt to cause to be transmitted to, or received by, any patient of any hospital providing mental health services under this part any article or thing declared by this section to be contraband, at any place which is outside of the grounds of such hospital, except as authorized by law or as specifically authorized by the person in charge of such hospital.

    (2) A person who violates any provision of this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
    Refer back to Gutmacher's discussion from a year or two back.
    This particular State Attorney dropped the charge(s) based on the law which reads 'except as authorized by law.' We are authorized by law, since the list which shows where we CANNOT carry does not include hospitals.

    You will have to decide for yourself whether or not you feel like being a test case. A common sense opinion is that we are authorized by law, and therefore, good to carry. However, since common sense and the law are not always used in the same sentence...
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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    hospital's

    i'm under the impression that hospitals are happy criminal zones.
    here in mich. hosptals are no-go but parking lots are legal as is
    many other no carry zones unless your exception box is checked
    on your cpl. i also perfor healthy people but sooner or later we all
    need to visit hospitals. wheather for ourselfs or family/friends who
    have some sort of medical issuse. i just lock my edc in car lock box
    for the visit.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    There is nothing in the entirety of Chapter 790 that prohibits permit holders from carrying in hospitals. So you should be okay, but I wouldn't put it past them to attempt to punish someone for obeying the law. If you're properly concealed, it should never become an issue.

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  15. #15
    Member Array MSGTTBAR's Avatar
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    3. Any firearms or deadly weapon.

    Does this mean that Chuck Norris cannot enter a Florida hospital????
    Life is too short to be serious!

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