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Going to MI

8K views 44 replies 21 participants last post by  RETSUPT99 
#1 ·
I will be travelling to MI in a few weeks and wanted some input from the locals. Will be in the Monroe area mostly but do plan on visiting Grand Rapids. Any tips on where not to go would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Hi tbeubs17, welcome to Michigan! :wave:

I don't live in Grand Rapids. I'm S.E. of there, in Macomb, Michigan. I have visited Grand Rapids and did not find it particularly threatening. It's nothing like Detroit! I grew up in Detroit, spent the first 30 years of my life there, including the infamous riots of 1967. So I may be a little desensitized to violence compared to the average person.

The economy is very bad in Michigan overall. Much worse than most states. As usual, be aware of your surroundings, keep your guard up and you should be fine.

Here are some links I found that may be informative:

Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Areas to avoid in Grand Rapids, MI
areas to avoid in grand rapids - Grand Rapids metro area - Michigan (MI) - Page 2 - City-Data Forum

Crime Statistics for Grand Rapids, MI
Grand Rapids Crime Statistics (MI) - CityRating.com
 
#3 ·
In Michigan you cannot carry in Hospitals, Day Care, School or school property, Colleges, Bars where drink sales are more than 51%, Entertainment facility where 2,500 or more people may be, churches, court or a theatre. You cannot be under the influence while carrying. The only city I would stay out of would be Detroit. Monroe is gun friendly. I use to live there.
 
#8 ·
He's got the concealed carry no-zones pretty much covered.

Be aware that "Under the influence" means a .02 BAC when it comes to carrying guns.

You can openly carry in all of the concealed carry no-zones if you so choose (As in, if you're unsure if the "bar & grill" is more bar than grill, just expose the gun and you're safe).

This is all assuming you have a Concealed firearm license from your home state.

If you don't have a Concealed Firearm License, you need a permit to purchase, or a permit to carry to possess a gun in MI (This is new law, as of Jan '09. Before, you HAD to have a concealed license in order to carry at all in MI).
 
#4 ·
GR is not a bad area, just use your common sense, but do plan on a stop to Meijer's Gardens, on beltline N there is a nice IMAX theater just a tad further up the road...

Also there is Bob's a nice gun store just south in Hastings....
 
#6 ·
If you get a chance go to The Henry Ford. Either the museum or the village. I love them both.You will see and learn things that will amaze you. How about Edison's last exhale saved in a jar for Henry Ford by Edison's son. You will have a blast I assure you. Go downtown to Greektown to eat. Hamtramack for some good Polish food. If I took you on a food tour of "The D" you would go home 20 lbs heavier. Truely a diverse and wonderful area if you are willing to look, but having said that stay on a minimum of yellow at all times. Sometimes yellow and a half. Also, if your spidey senses start tingling listen to them. Don't travel Detroit alone. If you try you will find all kinds of treasures here.
 
#9 ·
You'll do fine in Monroe. Cabella's is nearby in Dundee. I've never been to GR but it has a good reputation. By all means take time to see the Great Lakes and travel north. Avoid Detroit. Buddy's pizza is the best I have ever had. There is one in Dearborn on, I believe, Michigan Ave.

Don't carry a gun or even a single cartridge into Canada, even by accident.

Perhaps 20 miles north of Monroe you can access Gross Isle. Do drive around the island, it is very nice. Stay off Belle Isle, period.

Enjoy. The place is all about cars and the outdoors. It is a bit provincial in that regard. Most folks have a heart of gold and as someone said, you can gain 20 lbs. The food is great.
 
#12 ·
Open carry in gun free zones, sorry long post.

The following opinion is presented on-line for informational use only and does not replace the official version. (Mich Dept of Attorney General Web Site - www.ag.state.mi.us)

STATE OF MICHIGAN

JENNIFER M. GRANHOLM, ATTORNEY GENERAL



CONCEALED WEAPONS:

FIREARMS:

LAW ENFORCEMENT:

PEACE OFFICERS:


Reserve police officer carrying exposed pistol in gun-free zones established by Concealed Pistol Licensing Act

Reserve police officer carrying exposed pistol in gun-free zones established by Michigan Penal Code.

A uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized "peace officer" or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.

Opinion No. 7113

June 28, 2002

Honorable Gary C. Peters
State Senator
The Capitol
Lansing, MI

Honorable Mary Ann Middaugh
State Representative
The Capitol
Lansing, MI

Honorable Larry Julian
State Representative
The Capitol
Lansing, MI

You have asked whether a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within a "gun-free zone" established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act.

Your inquiry is governed by the interplay between two separate but related statutes, both of which regulate the possession of firearms.

The Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.421 et seq, regulates the possession and carrying of concealed pistols. The Act prohibits persons from carrying a concealed pistol unless they have been licensed in accordance with the provisions of that Act. Amendatory 2000 PA 381 made significant changes to the Act. Section 5b(7) sets forth specific qualifications a person must possess in order to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol and further provides that a county concealed weapon licensing board "shall issue a license" to an applicant who meets those requirements. The Act also provides that a person who is issued a license under the Act may carry a concealed pistol "anywhere in this state" except in certain designated classes of locations listed in section 5o of the Act. Those exceptions, commonly referred to as "gun free zones," include the following:

a) A school or school property . . . .

b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

c) A sports arena or stadium.

d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998 . . . . This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.

e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more] . . . .

g) A hospital.

h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [Section 5o(1).]

Section 12a of the Act expressly exempts certain persons from the requirements of the Act, including:

(a) A peace officer of a duly authorized police agency of the United States or of this state or a political subdivision of this state, who is regularly employed and paid by the United States or this state or a subdivision of this state, except a township constable. [Emphasis added.]

Under the express terms of this section, a police officer or reserve police officer is exempt from the requirements of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, including the prohibition against carrying a concealed weapon in a "gun free zone," but only if the officer (1) possesses the full authority of a peace officer, and not merely special or limited law enforcement authority; and (2) is regularly employed and paid for those services. See OAG, 2001-2002, No 7098, p 74 (January 11, 2002). Your inquiry does not specify whether the uniformed reserve officer in question possesses the full authority of a peace officer. You do, however, specify that the officer in question serves as an unpaid volunteer. Because the exemption contained in section 12a(a) is limited to officers who are "regularly employed," an unpaid volunteer officer is not exempt from the provisions of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act and is, therefore, prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol in a designated "gun free zone." OAG No 7098, supra.

A plain reading of section 5o(1) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act discloses, however, that its prohibition applies only to the carrying of pistols that are "concealed." A holstered pistol carried openly and in plain view is not "concealed" and therefore does not violate the prohibition contained in that section. See, e.g., OAG, 1951-1952, No 1388, p 228 (April 18, 1951) ("Should they be so directed by their superior officers, auxiliary police while on duty may carry weapons openly, the prohibition in the Penal Code applying only to 'concealed' weapons."), Cf., People v Johnnie W. Jones, 12 Mich App 293, 296; 162 NW2d 847 (1968); and People v Kincade, 61 Mich App 498, 502; 233 NW2d 54 (1975).

This, however, does not end the analysis of your question. The carrying of firearms in public is also restricted by the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. Section 234d of the Penal Code identifies certain "gun free zones" similar to those enumerated in section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; within those specified zones, the possession of firearms is strictly prohibited, subject to limited exceptions. Specifically, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code provides that:

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

This language is significantly broader than that employed by section 5o of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act. By its express terms, section 234d(1) of the Penal Code applies to firearms generally, not merely to pistols, and applies to firearms whether concealed or not. Subsection (2) of this provision creates several specific exceptions to this prohibition, two of which are germane to your inquiry. It provides, in pertinent part that:

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

* * *

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

Similarly, section 237a(4) of the Penal Code prohibits possession of a firearm in a weapon free school zone, a term defined in section 237a(6)(d) as "school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property." Like section 234d(2), the prohibition against possessing firearms in a school zone does not apply to a peace officer or to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon. Section 237a(5).

If a reserve officer qualifies as a peace officer, then the officer is exempt from the prohibition contained in sections 234d(1) and 237a(4) of the Penal Code concerning the possession of firearms on specified premises. If not, sections 234d(2)(c) and 237a(5)(c) of the Penal Code also exempt "[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon." A license issued by a county concealed weapon licensing board under section 5b(7) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act clearly satisfies the latter exemption. Thus, possession of such a license would enable a reserve police officer to carry an exposed, holstered pistol in the "gun free zones" described in sections 234d and 237a of the Penal Code.

It is my opinion, therefore, that a uniformed reserve police officer acting as an unpaid volunteer for a local police agency may carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act; and if the officer is either a fully authorized "peace officer" or, alternatively, possesses a valid concealed pistol license issued under the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, he or she may also carry an exposed, holstered pistol within the gun-free zones established by the Michigan Penal Code.

JENNIFER M. GRANHOLM
Attorney General

The more I read this the more confuse I am becoming. I think the previous poster might be correct but I am not sure I want to be a trial case. As the gun free zones appear to apply to concealed carry and if I have a CPL (concealed pistol license) I can carry there but not concealed only open. Boy sure would be nice to get a license MI lawyers input.
 
#13 ·
You are correct. You may Openly Carry at church. (As with all private property, you may be asked to leave for any reason whatsoever, or face a trespass charge) As this is a concealed carry sub-forum, I can leave this conversation for the OC Forum. See you over there!
 
#14 ·
FYI the Ford Museum and the ford's Greenfield village will take you two days to go through, but very worth the time, N Dundee is only 23 miles from the state line....
 
#17 ·
ecbaatz,
I quickly skimmed through your post #12 and I believe that it is directed at reserve LEO's not CPL holders.

I am about 98% sure you can not carry open or concealed at schools, colleges, etc.
Remember colleges like UofM MSU etc make their own rules/laws, so I am requesting you rethink carrying at any of the above mentioned places.

There is a forum that is strictly OC I think it is (open carry.org) or similar, you should check that site for the info.

I am not a lawyer so this info I am posting is worth what you paid for it.
 
#18 ·
Yes I have been looking at that site as well as MCRGO and am looking at posting my question there as they do have some lawyers as members. Trust me I do not intend to be a test case. I just will do my best not to go to those places although church is hard when your mother expects you to go (when I am visiting her). Luckily I live just north of the Indiana Michigan state line so go to church in IN and carry of course.
 
#20 ·
A huge word of caution for your travels. Don't worry about Detroit, Grand Rapids has it's not so nice areas BUT here is where you need to watch out!...

If you travel West of G.R. into Grandville, Jenison, Zeeland and then Holland you really have to watch your wallet! You see, the closer to Holland you get the more Dutchmen you will encounter and it has been know to happen that our tightfistedness can actually suck the money right out of your wallet and into our pockets where the money will live to a ripe old age and only be threatened to be taken out under the diress of a good deal but only AFTER we beat you to death on price!

Seriously though...enjoy GR and come visit the lakeshore (Michigan), it is beautifull here!
 
#45 ·
I have noticed this during my travels in S.W. MI...especially if the last name begins with a "Van...":yup::image035::rofl:

I, also will be traveling to S.W. MI in just a few months. It's been a while since I've been back...we'll see how the CC/OC goes...:bier:
 
#27 ·
Really? So I can open carry in a school?
If you open carry into a school in Michigan you had better have your lawyer's number programed into your cell phone because you ARE going to jail....or the hospital....or worse.

Though open carry is legal in most places in the state virtually no one open carries. Strap a gun on your hip and you're asking for trouble. Just make sure Mich is reciprocal with your state and keep it concealed. The MCRGO site linked above is your best source. All your questions are covered there.
 
#29 ·
Funny, Nothing bad happened to me. Even shook the hand of the principal of the school.

"Keep in concealed?" No thanks. I'm not going to punk out and be a closet 2A supporter. Yes, I have my concealed carry permit, but that's to give me the option to conceal IF and WHEN I feel like it, as well as enhancing my ability to OC. It only enhances my RIGHT by giving me the PRIVILEGE to conceal.

I don't appreciate being talked down to for exercising my RIGHT. If all gun owners actually exercised their rights instead of pretending the privilege that they had to QUALIFY AND PAY FOR is equivalent, the world would be a much more polite and safe place.
 
#28 ·
Thanks everybody.
There is a member at MGO that is an attorney and he frowns on the open carry subject. I am in the Detroit area and have done it a few times, but not in any of the areas restricted by the CPL. (I have a CPL).

Be aware that on private property, you agree to their rules as a condition of being present on their property. This means that they can ask you to leave at any time for any reason. Failure to comply will result in a trespass charge.
just for conversation sake, isn't a school public property (owned by the city) and isn't there a rule saying something about preemption (sp)?
 
#30 ·
Thanks everybody.
There is a member at MGO that is an attorney and he frowns on the open carry subject. I am in the Detroit area and have done it a few times, but not in any of the areas restricted by the CPL. (I have a CPL).


just for conversation sake, isn't a school public property (owned by the city) and isn't there a rule saying something about preemption (sp)?

Absolutely. Public Schools are public property, thus they're covered by state preemption (MCL 123.1102). This means that with a CPL, you may carry on school property in an open manner.
 
#34 ·
Funny, Nothing bad happened to me. Even shook the hand of the principal of the school.
That's nice. Do you imagine that you can do that in any school in the state of Michigan? Should folks expect your singular experience will be duplicated by anyone openly carrying onto school property everywhere in the state? I don't think so.

Now you obviously have an agenda and that is to exercise your legal right. Nothing wrong with that. But indiscriminate open carry, legal or not, is going to cause problems. And why you would jump on your soapbox in a discussion concerning someone visiting from out of state is beyond me.

It only enhances my RIGHT by giving me the PRIVILEGE to conceal.
Oh? So you don't think CC is a right but a privilege to be meted out by the state? Huh!
 
#37 ·
That's nice. Do you imagine that you can do that in any school in the state of Michigan? Should folks expect your singular experience will be duplicated by anyone openly carrying onto school property everywhere in the state? I don't think so.
The law allows it. That's all there is to it. People don't have to like it. Just like I don't have to like the weekly protests with people holding signs that say "F*** ISRAEL" on them (and I do NOT like them!).

Now you obviously have an agenda and that is to exercise your legal right. Nothing wrong with that. But indiscriminate open carry, legal or not, is going to cause problems.
Correct. I am not a closet activist. And I almost never have problems, and I live in a very VERY liberal city (82% for Obama this time around, 80% for Kerry last time).

And why you would jump on your soapbox in a discussion concerning someone visiting from out of state is beyond me.
Sorry for threadjacking. Wasn't the intention, the conversation naturally flowed that way.

Oh? So you don't think CC is a right but a privilege to be meted out by the state? Huh!
If you have to ask permission, it's not a right.
 
#35 ·
Have to agree on the open carry issue. There is too much drama in life as it is without every old lady or protective mother pointing to the "man with the gun". If all the sheepdogs wore wolf coats then the sheep would not know the difference and be always terrified. Keep it concealed and be a sheepdog. :hand10:
 
#41 ·
If you have to ask permission, it's not a right.
Ziggity that is not correct. Government intervention on this issue is a usurpation of a right that is inalienable. Governments don't have rights (only persons have rights) and therefore cannot grant them. Governments can only recognize rights or, in varying degrees of despotism, refuse to recognize rights. Gun control is an unconstitutional act by the gov't. They are the ones acting illegally. They have no right to take away what is inalienable. Power to act doesn't justify an action.

I am not opposed to requiring some minimum safety training for carrying weapons, which is really no different that requiring one demonstrate their ability to safely drive an automobile in order to get a drivers license. Society has a vested interest in its safety after all. That given I oppose any and all forms of gun registration and any efforts to limit my right to own whatever I want.

Mark
 
#44 ·
Hello there. I live about 45 minutes from Grand Rapids and travel there from time to time. As someone else put it GR is not like Detroit. When you get there just keep your eyes open. You will be able to "feel" if you are not in the right area. There are some very bad areas in GR but for the most part unless people have business in there they won'e be going near there.
 
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