Going to MI - Page 3

Going to MI

This is a discussion on Going to MI within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I guess I'll keep my trap shut about Open Carry... This being the concealed carry sub-forum and all. Enjoy your visit to MI....

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Thread: Going to MI

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    I guess I'll keep my trap shut about Open Carry... This being the concealed carry sub-forum and all.

    Enjoy your visit to MI.


  2. #32
    Member Array hghgrad's Avatar
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    I live in Monroe, not too much to do around here besides Cabelas really.

    Just remember that Mi is a "shall notify" state, and the first words out of your mouth if you get pulled over are "I have a CCW, and I am carrying".
    Armed and waiting...

  3. #33
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hghgrad View Post
    I live in Monroe, not too much to do around here besides Cabelas really.

    Just remember that Mi is a "shall notify" state, and the first words out of your mouth if you get pulled over are "I have a CCW, and I am carrying".
    Yes. But only if you're carrying. You're not required to notify him that you have your Concealed Pistol License if you're not carrying.

  4. #34
    New Member Array MarkAC's Avatar
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    Funny, Nothing bad happened to me. Even shook the hand of the principal of the school.
    That's nice. Do you imagine that you can do that in any school in the state of Michigan? Should folks expect your singular experience will be duplicated by anyone openly carrying onto school property everywhere in the state? I don't think so.

    Now you obviously have an agenda and that is to exercise your legal right. Nothing wrong with that. But indiscriminate open carry, legal or not, is going to cause problems. And why you would jump on your soapbox in a discussion concerning someone visiting from out of state is beyond me.

    It only enhances my RIGHT by giving me the PRIVILEGE to conceal.
    Oh? So you don't think CC is a right but a privilege to be meted out by the state? Huh!

  5. #35
    New Member Array Danco411's Avatar
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    Have to agree on the open carry issue. There is too much drama in life as it is without every old lady or protective mother pointing to the "man with the gun". If all the sheepdogs wore wolf coats then the sheep would not know the difference and be always terrified. Keep it concealed and be a sheepdog.

  6. #36
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danco411 View Post
    Have to agree on the open carry issue. There is too much drama in life as it is without every old lady or protective mother pointing to the "man with the gun". If all the sheepdogs wore wolf coats then the sheep would not know the difference and be always terrified. Keep it concealed and be a sheepdog.
    Criminals hide their guns until they're going to use them...

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkAC View Post
    That's nice. Do you imagine that you can do that in any school in the state of Michigan? Should folks expect your singular experience will be duplicated by anyone openly carrying onto school property everywhere in the state? I don't think so.
    The law allows it. That's all there is to it. People don't have to like it. Just like I don't have to like the weekly protests with people holding signs that say "F*** ISRAEL" on them (and I do NOT like them!).

    Now you obviously have an agenda and that is to exercise your legal right. Nothing wrong with that. But indiscriminate open carry, legal or not, is going to cause problems.
    Correct. I am not a closet activist. And I almost never have problems, and I live in a very VERY liberal city (82% for Obama this time around, 80% for Kerry last time).

    And why you would jump on your soapbox in a discussion concerning someone visiting from out of state is beyond me.
    Sorry for threadjacking. Wasn't the intention, the conversation naturally flowed that way.

    Oh? So you don't think CC is a right but a privilege to be meted out by the state? Huh!
    If you have to ask permission, it's not a right.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkAC View Post
    That's nice. Do you imagine that you can do that in any school in the state of Michigan? Should folks expect your singular experience will be duplicated by anyone openly carrying onto school property everywhere in the state? I don't think so.

    Now you obviously have an agenda and that is to exercise your legal right. Nothing wrong with that. But indiscriminate open carry, legal or not, is going to cause problems. And why you would jump on your soapbox in a discussion concerning someone visiting from out of state is beyond me.


    Oh? So you don't think CC is a right but a privilege to be meted out by the state? Huh!
    I asked a few questions about OC and he answered them, sorry for redirecting the original thread. I was going with the flow of the conversation though.

  9. #39
    Member Array C Zeller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigziggityzo View Post
    Yes. But only if you're carrying. You're not required to notify him that you have your Concealed Pistol License if you're not carrying.
    I would like to know where you found that information. I have many LEO's as friends and have asked many if they pull over many CCer's and they always reply yes, but then add that not many of them are actually carrying though. Why would they know this if one is not required to show if they are not carrying. I ALWAYS let the LEO know and was told to tell them as soooon as they ask for ID, carrying or not. I am not saying that the LEO is my only proof, but have also learned that in class and read it I think in the NRA hand out book from class.
    I know what you're thinking, "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself...you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? - Dirty Harry

  10. #40
    Ex Member Array zigziggityzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Zeller View Post
    I would like to know where you found that information.
    Read Section 28.425f #3 carefully:

    Section 28.425f

    28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.
    Sec. 5f.

    (1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

    (2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

    (a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

    (3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

    (4) An individual who violates subsection (1) or (2) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined not more than $100.00.

    (5) An individual who violates subsection (3) is responsible for a state civil infraction and may be fined as follows:

    (a) For a first offense, by a fine of not more than $500.00 or by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being suspended for 6 months, or both.

    (b) For a subsequent offense within 3 years of a prior offense, by a fine of not more than $1,000.00 and by the individual's license to carry a concealed pistol being revoked.

    (6) If an individual is found responsible for a state civil infraction under this section, the court shall notify the department of state police and the concealed weapon licensing board that issued the license of that determination.

    (7) A pistol carried in violation of this section is subject to immediate seizure by a peace officer. If a peace officer seizes a pistol under this subsection, the individual has 45 days in which to display his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer. If the individual displays his or her license or documentation to an authorized employee of the law enforcement entity that employs the peace officer within the 45-day period, the authorized employee of that law enforcement entity shall return the pistol to the individual unless the individual is prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. If the individual does not display his or her license or documentation within the 45-day period, the pistol is subject to forfeiture as provided in section 5g. A pistol is not subject to immediate seizure under this subsection if both of the following circumstances exist:

    (a) The individual has his or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card in his or her possession when the violation occurs.

    (b) The peace officer verifies through the law enforcement information network that the individual is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol.

    (8) As used in this section, "peace officer" includes a motor carrier officer appointed under section 6d of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6d, and security personnel employed by the state under section 6c of 1935 PA 59, MCL 28.6c.
    It clearly states that you are required to notify if all three statements are met. If you are:

    1) Licensed
    2) Carrying Concealed
    3) Stopped by an officer

    You MUST notify. If any one of those is not met, you have no duty to notify. For example: If you're not licensed, you don't have to notify, as that would be self-incrimination, and you're constitutionally protected. If you're not concealing, you don't have to notify, as this is regarding concealed carry (also note that it's impossible to carry openly in a vehicle in the state of MI, as far as I can tell). If you're not carrying at all, you don't have to notify either.

    Number 2 states that you must give the officer your CPL and driver's license if he asks for it. It has no bearing on the duty to notify, because the officer MUST ask for it first.

  11. #41
    New Member Array MarkAC's Avatar
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    If you have to ask permission, it's not a right.
    Ziggity that is not correct. Government intervention on this issue is a usurpation of a right that is inalienable. Governments don't have rights (only persons have rights) and therefore cannot grant them. Governments can only recognize rights or, in varying degrees of despotism, refuse to recognize rights. Gun control is an unconstitutional act by the gov't. They are the ones acting illegally. They have no right to take away what is inalienable. Power to act doesn't justify an action.

    I am not opposed to requiring some minimum safety training for carrying weapons, which is really no different that requiring one demonstrate their ability to safely drive an automobile in order to get a drivers license. Society has a vested interest in its safety after all. That given I oppose any and all forms of gun registration and any efforts to limit my right to own whatever I want.

    Mark

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Zeller View Post
    I would like to know where you found that information. I have many LEO's as friends and have asked many if they pull over many CCer's and they always reply yes, but then add that not many of them are actually carrying though. Why would they know this if one is not required to show if they are not carrying. I ALWAYS let the LEO know and was told to tell them as soooon as they ask for ID, carrying or not. I am not saying that the LEO is my only proof, but have also learned that in class and read it I think in the NRA hand out book from class.
    When they run you drivers license your cpl will show up.

    Ask the instructor or your LEO friends if they know of anybody that has been charged/found guilty with not notifying while they are not carrying?
    I personally have not heard/read of any, but would like to hear their reply.


    I have read a few cases where DNR agents have stuck it to people for not notifying "fast enough" whatever that means

    Another person already posted the actual law, but just for curosity sake, ask them that question.

  13. #43
    Member Array CZAD6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trucker View Post
    When they run you drivers license your cpl will show up.

    Ask the instructor or your LEO friends if they know of anybody that has been charged/found guilty with not notifying while they are not carrying?
    I personally have not heard/read of any, but would like to hear their reply.


    I have read a few cases where DNR agents have stuck it to people for not notifying "fast enough" whatever that means

    Another person already posted the actual law, but just for curosity sake, ask them that question.
    I was told to always tell because it does show up and if you don't, they will come back wondering why you didn't say anything. I guess if it is not the law to tell, then they shouldn't worry, but you understand I hope. This doesn't really pertain to me though, because I am always carrying anyway

  14. #44
    Member Array chains1240's Avatar
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    Hello there. I live about 45 minutes from Grand Rapids and travel there from time to time. As someone else put it GR is not like Detroit. When you get there just keep your eyes open. You will be able to "feel" if you are not in the right area. There are some very bad areas in GR but for the most part unless people have business in there they won'e be going near there.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosights View Post
    A huge word of caution for your travels. Don't worry about Detroit, Grand Rapids has it's not so nice areas BUT here is where you need to watch out!...

    If you travel West of G.R. into Grandville, Jenison, Zeeland and then Holland you really have to watch your wallet! You see, the closer to Holland you get the more Dutchmen you will encounter and it has been know to happen that our tightfistedness can actually suck the money right out of your wallet and into our pockets where the money will live to a ripe old age and only be threatened to be taken out under the diress of a good deal but only AFTER we beat you to death on price!

    Seriously though...enjoy GR and come visit the lakeshore (Michigan), it is beautifull here!
    I have noticed this during my travels in S.W. MI...especially if the last name begins with a "Van..."

    I, also will be traveling to S.W. MI in just a few months. It's been a while since I've been back...we'll see how the CC/OC goes...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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